[Mark Henninger]


Disney joins the premium online content-delivery fray with a service called Disney Movies Anywhere. According to the company, the launch of the new cloud-based service coincides with the early online-only release of Frozen, its latest animated blockbuster.

 

The new service utilizes a digital rights-management system called Keychest, which competes directly with Ultraviolet, the current de facto cloud-based copyright-management standard that most studios use for digital releases. Unlike Ultraviolet, which is supported by Vudu, Keychest works with Apple's iTunes—which is not compatible with Ultraviolet. It's not a huge surprise given the close ties between Apple and Disney.

 

Quote:

"The arrival of Disney Movies Anywhere has been long delayed. Two years ago the company declined to participate in a digital movie storage and management system called  UltraViolet , even though every other major film studio signed on. At the time, Disney was concerned that the name was confusing and worried that families — Disney’s core consumers — were not yet ready to embrace cloud storage technology. The company, always mindful of tightly controlling how its products are presented, also felt its brand was strong enough to go it alone." read more at NYTimes.com

 

 



Frozen streaming via Disney Movies Anywhere app on an iPad - Image from NYTimes.com

 

I'm not certain what this move means for consumers. Vudu, which supports the Ultraviolet standard, offers Frozen for sale—just like iTunes. The difference appears to be that if you buy a movie directly from Disney through Movies Anywhere, you can only download it or stream it via iTunes or Disney's own app, and not via Vudu. 

 

Personally, I don’t see any benefit to Disney's new arrangement, it's another proprietary system that will further balkanize the world of cloud-based movie formats. Ultraviolet is an industry standard for digital-rights management that gained a lot of traction in the past year or two, and Disney's move runs counter to that effort. One the other hand, Disney and Apple are serious power players—Disney's catalog is truly stellar thanks to Marvel, Star Wars, and Pixar. 

 

What do you think of Disney's proprietary new service? Is there any benefit to a service that competes with Ultraviolet, or is this development a good reason to keep buying Blu-ray discs?

 

Quote:
"To stoke sales, studios have started to routinely make new movies available for digital purchase two weeks before selling them on DVD and Blu-ray discs. The arrival of Disney Movies Anywhere may help strengthen the market even more."  read more at NYTimes.com

 

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[mo949]

To add to the story, since you chose 'Frozen' as an example, that particular title will only be released in 3D in the US via digital download on this system (3d blurays will be released in other markets around the globe) . I'll let you all draw your own conclusions on the move.

 

[Mark Henninger]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24413876


To add to the story, since you chose 'Frozen' as an example, that particular title will only be released in 3D in the US via digital download on this system (3d blurays will be released in other markets around the globe) . I'll let you all draw your own conclusions on the move.

 

Disney made that choice, I'm only reporting on it. The company timed the announcement of the service to coincide with the release of Frozen.

 

[mo949]

^I suspected as much. I can only imagine it is a small part of their strategy where they may be hoping to use it as bait for people that they already know are 'crazy' enough (like myself) to pay premiums for the 3D discs released so far to become early adopters of this new service by making us jump through another hoop to get what we want; even the frozen 3D commercials are still popping up on my advertisements.


More to your original question, does Ultraviolet currently let you stream 3D content?

 

[Mark Henninger]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24413957


^I suspected as much. I can only imagine it is a small part of their strategy where they may be hoping to use it as bait for people that they already know are 'crazy' enough (like myself) to pay premiums for the 3D discs released so far to become early adopters of this new service by making us jump through another hoop to get what we want; even the frozen 3D commercials are still popping up on my advertisements.


More to your original question, does Ultraviolet currently let you stream 3D content?

 

I guess I have not specifically seen that, 3D Blu-rays sometimes come with an Ultraviolet copy but that copy is usually 2D. Vudu itself has 3D versions of some movies, so there's nothing stopping UV from supporting 3D releases. I'm not clear on that, hopefully someone else can answer, or else I'll go look it up sometime soon.

 

[sdg4vfx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24413876


To add to the story, since you chose 'Frozen' as an example, that particular title will only be released in 3D in the US via digital download on this system (3d blurays will be released in other markets around the globe) . I'll let you all draw your own conclusions on the move.

Streaming 3D only? That's awful since streaming 3D movies are essentially half rez - i.e. a single HD frame with both eyes, half width, in the frame (what is often called Side-By-Side). Might be more accurate to call it "anamorphic" res, but either way diagonal visual features are hosed ...

 

[Maklar]

This is really nice as I can easily watch my movies on my iPhone now (or my daugher as I am sure it will end up). I'm sure it can chew through mobile bandwidth very fast though.

 

[thrillcat]

Considering it's just a Disney branding of the iTunes store, I'm perfectly fine with it. It's not a 3rd ecosystem. I'm perfectly fine with having iTunes and Vudu.


Vudu is built into my receiver, and an AppleTV is $100 - we have one on each tv anyway.


Perhaps I'm mistaken, but how is Disney's service in relation to iTunes any different than Vudu/Flixter/et.al in relation to Ultraviolet? Seems like the same deal to me.


Ultraviolet/Vudu have a strong foothold in the market. So does Apple. I'm okay with it.

 

[MuaySteve]

Am I the only one who would just rather rip the content from the DVD version then copy it to whatever mobile device I feel like? I am going to copy a bunch of our movie collection onto a tablet for my kids this summer when we go on our first family vacation/car trip.

 

[thrillcat]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MuaySteve  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24416327


Am I the only one who would just rather rip the content from the DVD version then copy it to whatever mobile device I feel like? I am going to copy a bunch of our movie collection onto a tablet for my kids this summer when we go on our first family vacation/car trip.

That's always a possibility, but it's much less hassle to register an online copy when you buy the bluray then open an app and click "download". I'd rather do that than spend time ripping.


I've also been using Vudu to upgrade our DVDs to HD versions in the cloud so I can store the DVDs away and not bother with them anymore. If you do 10 at a time it's $2.50 each movie. Worth it to me.

 

[HockeyoAJB]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24414734



Streaming 3D only? That's awful since streaming 3D movies are essentially half rez - i.e. a single HD frame with both eyes, half width, in the frame (what is often called Side-By-Side). Might be more accurate to call it "anamorphic" res, but either way diagonal visual features are hosed ...

I don't think this is accurate.  I'm pretty sure that 3D movies contain full 1080p frames for each eye and that it is up to the display device to determine how that information is sent to the screen.

 

For Active 3D displays that operate at 120hz, it displays a full res frame meant for the left eye for 1/120th of a second, followed by a full res frame meant for the right eye for 1/120th of a second, with the active shutter glasses synced to the display via IR in order to ensure that only the eye that is meant to see the image sees it.  If the overall movie frame rate is intended to be 24 fps then that means each eye is intended to see 24 different frames per second.  That means 48 total frames per second (24 for the left eye and 24 for the right eye).  Note that 120/24 = 5 and 120/48 = 2.5.  Typically what happens is you see image A (left eye), followed by image A (right eye), followed by image A (left eye), followed by image A (right eye), followed by image A (left eye) all in the span of 1/24th of a second.  Note: You see image A (left eye) 3 times and image A (right eye) 2 times in that time span (2+3 = 5 = 120/24).  Image A (left eye) and image A (right eye) are matched temporally (i.e they were captured at the same moment in time so there is no motion of the objects), but their perspective is slightly different, which is what gives it the 3D effect.  When that 1/24th of a second is up, the next 1/24th of a second starts image B (right eye), image B (left eye), image B (right eye), image B (left eye), image B (right eye), followed by image C (left eye), image C (right eye), etc., etc.  Note: if the display operates at 240 hz then it can actually show an equal number of left an right eye images (5 each) in each 1/24th of a second.

 

For Passive 3D displays (polarized), it takes the full res image for the left eye and the full res image for the right eye and splits each of them into 2 fields, where each field contains either only the even rows, or only the odd rows.  It then recombines the fields matching the odd rows of the left eye image w/ the even rows of the right eye image.  So, the resulting image is technically still full res, but the even and odd rows do not match each other since they are from different perspectives.  The image is then polarized.  The easiest way to visualize this is to imagine the light from the odd rows traveling in a vertical wave from the screen to you, while the even rows travel in a horizontal wave from the screen to you.  If you don't wear the proper polarized glasses both of your eyes will see both parts of the image, which will result in a blurry mess.  But, if you do wear the proper polarized glasses then the lens in front of each eye will filter out part of the image, so that only the part that is meant for that eye gets to it.  The result is that each eye only sees half of the vertical resolution, with the left eye seeing the odd rows, while the right eye sees the even rows.

 

If what you had said about the file only containing half res frames were correct then technically passive 3D could still be made to work by simply combining the half rez images and skipping the first step where the display separates the frames into fields.  However, I don't see how Active 3D displays would work if they are only given half res images to begin with.

 

Unless I am mistaken about this, 3D movies contain double the number of individual unique frames as compared to 2D movies, which makes the file size roughly twice as big.  I imagine that they would take twice as long to download (if the download option is used) and would require double the bandwidth of a 2D movie to stream.

 

[adidino]

This is not confirmed but information has leaked stating there is a contract dispute between Walmart and Disney regarding the 3D version of Frozen. Walmart is claiming an exclusivity agreement of the 3D version for a specified period of time. This would make sense considering we're seeing the 3D version released everywhere else around the globe.


This has nothing to do with claimed lack of 3D popularity in the US as some are implying.

 

[HockeyoAJB]


Does anyone know if the Apple TV (all three versions) has 3D passthru capabilities?  If not then folks would seemingly have to attach their PC/laptop (with 3D graphics card) directly to the 3D display or own a 3D display that has the Disney app installed on it or at least a built-in web browser that can access the Disney site.

 

I wonder if the next generation of iPhones & iPads will have 3D displays...  Would seem odd to have actual 3D digital copies of movies in your iTunes library and not be able to play them on Apple's most popular devices.

 

[thrillcat]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24416803


Does anyone know if the Apple TV (all three versions) has 3D passthru capabilities?  If not then folks would seemingly have to attach their PC/laptop (with 3D graphics card) directly to the 3D display or own a 3D display that has the Disney app installed on it or at least a built-in web browser that can access the Disney site.


I wonder if the next generation of iPhones & iPads will have 3D displays...  Would seem odd to have actual 3D digital copies of movies in your iTunes library and not be able to play them on Apple's most popular devices.

I don't care about 3D in the least, and I'm not sure if the AppleTV will pass a 3D signal or not. Strangely, the files that download from the iTunes store are 1080p23.98 files, but when displayed through the AppleTV the projector reads 1080p30.


There are major rumors about a completely redesigned AppleTV coming this fall, so we shall see what it brings.

 

[sdg4vfx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24416552



I don't think this is accurate.  I'm pretty sure that 3D movies contain full 1080p frames for each eye and that it is up to the display device to determine how that information is sent to the screen.


For Active 3D displays ...


For Passive 3D displays (polarized), ...


If what you had said about the file only containing half res frames were correct then technically passive 3D could still be made to work by simply combining the half rez images and skipping the first step where the display separates the frames into fields.  However, I don't see how Active 3D displays would work if they are only given half res images to begin with.


Unless I am mistaken about this, 3D movies contain double the number of individual unique frames as compared to 2D movies, which makes the file size roughly twice as big.  I imagine that they would take twice as long to download (if the download option is used) and would require double the bandwidth of a 2D movie to stream.

Most of your info on how 3D is "displayed" by the 3D TV is correct. I was referring to the delivery format of the 3D imagery. 3D TV's will generally read the common consumer 3D "formats" and convert them to best display on that panel.


Currently the only consumer 3D format that delivers both "eyes" at full res is the native blu-ray 3D format called "Frame-Packing". In that format both eyes are stored on a single, very large frame (one on top, one below). This format requires higher bandwidth than normal HD and special hardware to decode. Because of this, so far, no cable/satellite or streaming services use it for delivering 3D, and it is not a part of the 3D broadcast "spec".


All the 3D formats currently used by cable/satellite and streaming store both eyes onto one, HD frame to accommodate bandwidth, and current hardware, limitations ...


Side-By-Side: Both "eyes" side-by-side on a single HD frame, which means each eye is squeezed 50% horizontally. The most often used.


Over-Under (or Top-Bottom): Both eyes stacked on a single HD frame, which means each eye is squeezed 50% vertically.



Theaters of course receive the L and R "eyes" as separate, full res, image sequences/clips. There are some other 3D formats used in the professional post world that do not apply to the consumer market (yet).

 

[Elvis Is Alive]

No 3D Blu-ray, no sale here. Owner of almost 1000 Blu-ray discs including about 70 3D titles. No interest in streaming video of any kind.

 

[Kascnef82]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Is Alive  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24417355


No 3D Blu-ray, no sale here. Owner of almost 1000 Blu-ray discs including about 70 3D titles. No interest in streaming video of any kind.

i agree. Sucks that Frozen won't be available on 3d bluray ala Avatar when it first came out on bluray the 3d bluray was only for 3d panasonic tvs and then a few years later it came out on 3d bluray. I wonder if fox will reissue Avatar in extended form on 3d bluray once avatar 2 comes out....

 

[adidino]

There's always the UK version. I plan on getting it.

 

[HockeyoAJB]


Ah.  I see what you mean in terms of the "physical" delivery format.  I was not aware that Side by Side and Top/Bottom formats were only half res to begin with.  The vast majority of the 3D I have viewed recently was either in the theater or on blu-ray.  I have seen some side by side still images using the Nvidia 3D photo viewer on my laptop, which has an active display.  You can actually see the two separate images side by side when you first open the file, before you enable the stereoscopic view, but I guess I never looked at the separate images closely enough to notice that the were "squeezed".

 

My first experiences with 3D date back to the early 80's with the anaglyph (red/cyan) glasses.  I vaguely remember seeing Jaws 3-D, though I can't remember if that was at the theater or a few years later on tv.  I remember transformer toys having stats on the back of the box that you had to use the glasses to be able to read and, if I'm not mistaken, they had some 3D images on the boxes as well.

 

To this day, the 3D that sticks out in my mind as being the coolest, though, were the silver holographic stickers my grandfather gave me as a kid.  I specifically remember one of an eagle with its wings spread.  I was so amazed by those things, I actually asked my mom to take me to the library to check out a book that explained how holographic images are created.  If they could make 3D movies with the same level of depth and the ability to see the objects on the screen from a different perspective as you move about the room the way that those holographic photos worked, then I think everyone would demand to see the 3D versions.

 

The also remember the amazement in the arcades in the early 90's when Sega released the arcade game, Time Traveler.  I so wanted that to come out on the Sega Genesis...

 

[Elvis Is Alive]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kascnef82  /t/1520008/disney-launches-movies-anywhere-cloud-service#post_24417590


i agree. Sucks that Frozen won't be available on 3d bluray ala Avatar when it first came out on bluray the 3d bluray was only for 3d panasonic tvs and then a few years later it came out on 3d bluray. I wonder if fox will reissue Avatar in extended form on 3d bluray once avatar 2 comes out....

Heh, I have that 3D version of Avatar. It came with my Panny blu-ray player I purchased.