AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by David Werner
Need some reviews, opinions on this speaker. Would be used in a 5.1 system.
Hi David,


Sorry to interrupt, but I saw that your post had not yet been answered and thought I'd try to give you some useful information on the Swans M1.


If you don't mind, I'd first like to ask you a couple questions in order to determine exactly what your HT expectations are, and to get a grasp on exactly what type of system the M1's will be a part of.


1) In a 5.1 channel system, will you be using (5) individual M1's or are you using them for just fronts, just rears, or fronts and rears (but not center)?


2) What percentage breakdown would you give to your system between music and home theater (ex. 75% music, 25% HT)?


3) Do you have a multi-channel music source (DVD-A or SACD) or plan on owning one in the future?


4) What will be driving the M1's...a 5 or 2 channel power amp? Receiver (if so, which one)?


and finally,


5) Do you have, or plan to purchase, a subwoofer (if so, which one)...what are your room dimensions that this system will go in?


As I'm sure you've read, the M1 is a truly world-class monitor. This speaker uses the highest quality components including a very strong and smooth Kevlar/paper cone with phase plug (drastically improves imaging), and breathtakingly detailed kapton film ribbon tweeter...both of which are used on the $135,000.00 Dulcet flagship speaker made by Swans! Add this to the incredible hand-crafted oak enclosure found on the M1 and you have what may be the most revealing speaker in our entire lineup. In addition, the M1 IS a shielded speaker making it ideal for home theater use!


However, before determining if this speaker is right for you, I'd like to see your answers to the above. Upon your reply, I'll give you a little further information on this speaker. While the M1 is likely the highest performing speaker we sell, I need to know more about your system before making any firm recommendations.


In the meantime, if you have any questions or concerns, you're welcome to call or e-mail me at any time.


Thanks again!


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Steve Ozmai Thanks for your reply.

1. I was planning on using them for all 5 speaker locations.

2. 75% DVD movies and concerts, 25% music

3. No, not at this time.

4. 5 Marantz MA500s

5. I have the SVS CS ultra powered w/ Marantz MA700. The room dimensions are approximately 2400 cu. ft.


I'm currently using M&K LCR55s, just wondering how the Divas would compare. I'm currently haggling a price on a pair of Paradigm Active 20s but that would be for another system. I'll await your response. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Hi David,


Thanks for the prompt reply.


Given your setup, and your current configuration, the M1's would be a significant upgrade to your system. The M1 is a much higher performance speaker than the LCR55 and will provide far more detail and resolution in your (very nice, BTW) home theater system. Powered by 5 MA500's, the M1's will open up nicely and you'll see just how special the M1's ribbon tweeter can be (more on that in a bit).


The M1 is very similar in size to the LCR55 (8.5" x 13" x 12" vs. 8" x 7" x 10") though it's slightly bigger enclosure does wonders in terms of bass extension. The M1 (25 lb. ported enclosure) goes all the way down to 55Hz thanks to the 5.25" kevlar paper cone, as opposed to 87Hz with your current setup. This will allow you to cross your sub (also a very nice choice) over at a lower frequency and get maximum output from your (5) independent channels.


In most cases, the M1 is not the ideal choice as a home theater speaker because it requires (1) very clean power to realize its full potential (not a problem in your system) and (2) a very good sub that is well matched to the performance of the speaker (also not a problem for you). In many instances, people want to run the M1's with a "brand name" receiver and mate it with a $200-300.00 sub. While the M1 will still shine in this setup (compared to similar speakers), it will not come anywhere close to realizing it's full potential. However...this is obviously not the case for you.


Another feature the M1 sports is its incredible music performance. In terms of overall musicality, nothing we sell can touch the M1 mated with a good sub. The soundstage width, depth, and overall detail this speaker provides are literally astounding. Hence the reason I inquire about multi-channel music...in a DVD-A or SACD system, (5) M1's is the ONLY choice (leaves room for a future upgrade!).


Finally, I have one last question for you. Will the M1's be placed in a dedicated theater room, or in a family room type setup? Because of their design, you will need to place all M1's at the same level (vertically) in order to realize their full potential. For more information on this, visit our website to read about the properties of the kapton film membrane ribbon tweeter. In a nutshell, this tweeter provides incredible side to side dispersion, to maximize on and off axis response, but is very narrow in terms of its vertical dispersion. As a result, you will want every speaker to be located with 1-2' of ear height. If this is not possible, I would consider moving to something like the Diva 6.1. This speaker features the infamous top-mounted tweeter with an incredibly unidirectional dispersion (not to mention ground-shaking bass).


If you think the M1's sound like something you're looking for, please send me a direct e-mail or give me a call at any time with any questions you may have. Of course, like all speakers at **********, the M1 does have a 30 day audition period...no questions asked.


Thanks again for the post, David.


I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Will the M1's be placed in a dedicated theater room, or in a family room type setup?
- In a family room.

Quote:
As a result, you will want every speaker to be located with 1-2' of ear height.
- Able to accomodate that.

Steve I've been trying to find reviews on this model but come up empty handed. I know the proof is in the pudding and to try it in your own listening environment is best. But for me I like to be reeeaaallly sure about a product. If you can point me to any reviews I'd appreciate it and thanks for your replys. David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Steve,


Thanks for the info on the M1's. I, too, am interested in these speakers.


I understand there are actually two slightly improved versions of this speaker available -- the M1.2 and the M1.2-2000. I believe the finish is the only difference between these two, but there are other features differentiating them from the M1.


Could you please tell us what those differences are and if av123 will be selling these other versions?


Thanks, Steve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
The M1.2 uses Swan's larger isodynamic planar tweeter, which (according to Swan), provides a significant increase in sensitivity as well as lowering distortion at higher volume levels and increasing maximum dynamic range. The bass is supposed to be more filled out while remaining fast and accurate and in proportion to the rest of the frequency range. The M1.2 has black lacquer front, top, and rear panels with solid wood side panels. The M1.2-2000 features the same construction with PVC veneer side panels.


I too would like to see AV123 carry the M1.2. An active version would be even better!


Colin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by David Werner
- In a family room.


- Able to accomodate that.


Steve I've been trying to find reviews on this model but come up empty handed. I know the proof is in the pudding and to try it in your own listening environment is best. But for me I like to be reeeaaallly sure about a product. If you can point me to any reviews I'd appreciate it and thanks for your replys. David
Hi David,


Thanks for the message. Please accept my apologies for the tardy reply as I've been out of the office most of the day. As of right now, there are no "official" reviews on the Swans M1. We only recently made the decision to sell this speaker, thus it's only been on our website for a few months. Review samples have been sent out to several major publications, though these usually take quite a bit of time (several months in some cases) to actually show up in print. While we're pushing the reviewers as hard as we can right now, there's little we can do to speed up their processes (once they recieve the M1's, they have to first finish the review they're already on and then begin "familiarizing" themselves with our products).


Of course, when I have any word of the release date on ANY of these reviews, I'll get them to you ASAP. However, because of our 30-day audition period, I'd strongly recommend you "review" the speakers yourself and see what you think. I know you'll be completely thrown back, but if not, you can rest comfortably knowing that we'll still give you your money back...no questions asked...if you're not totally satisfied. How can you beat that?


That said, it really sounds like this speaker is ideal for your HT setup. Given your current speakers, I think the M1 would be a perfect match in your home, and will provide you with just the upgrade you were looking for.


Finally (and probably most importantly) I should let you know that we will be beginning a very special promotion on the M1 very shortly. For the pricing info on this speaker and some VERY appealing deals, please e-mail me directly, as I do not want to break any of this forum's rules.


Thanks again for your time, David. I look forward to hearing from you soon!


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Banfield
How would the M1 compare with anything in the Diva lineup? We hear almost nothing about these speakers in this forum.
Hi Colin,


Thanks for the message. Indeed, you are correct. There is little information on the M1 in this forum compared with the rest of the Diva line. This is likely due to a couple reasons. (1) This speaker, as I replied to David above, is NOT for everyone. While it does offer some very nice features not found in the Diva line, it is a speaker that is made specifically for certain applications and equipment. The M1 is a VERY high resolution mini-monitor that requires a very high resolution system to truly shine. However, it is not the ideal speaker if being driven with a "brand name" receiver and cheap "zip cord" speaker wire. (2) Also, as it is a fairly new addition to our line (as opposed to the Diva's which have been around for about 1.5 years), the M1 has not yet gained the following that the Diva's have. As you've seen though, in the 50+ pages of Diva threads, it's only a matter of time until this happens


In the right setup, the M1 will outperform any speaker of its size (comparing the M1 and the 6.1, for example, is basically impossible). Mated with a VERY high end sub, such as David's SVS CS Ultra, this speaker will output a level of resolution and detail that is relatively unmatched in a speaker of this price.


Thanks again for the message Colin! I hope I've answered your questions. If there is anything left unsaid, please feel free to contact me personally at any time!!


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Duane
Steve,


Thanks for the info on the M1's. I, too, am interested in these speakers.


I understand there are actually two slightly improved versions of this speaker available -- the M1.2 and the M1.2-2000. I believe the finish is the only difference between these two, but there are other features differentiating them from the M1.


Could you please tell us what those differences are and if av123 will be selling these other versions?


Thanks, Steve.
Hi Duane,


Thanks for the message! I believe that Colin already answered your questions, but just wanted to check and see if there was anything else I could help you with?


Indeed, the difference between the (2) M1.2's is their finish. While there are some differences between the M1 and the M1.2, we feel that these differences are slight, at best, and did not warrant the higher prices from our supplier. The M1 is the only speaker of its kind sold by **********, and we intend to keep it this way.


As I'm sure you've heard (and seen) before, **********'s business philosophy is to (1) provide unmatched customer service and (2) offer truly high-end audio technology at prices "real" people can afford. As a result, everything we sell must first be put through (and pass) OUR quality and price/performance tests. For this reason, we have nothing but the utmost confidence in EVERY single product we sell (Hsu, Outlaw, Exact, Perpetual etc...) and are able to offer these products at prices you've never seen before. While we probably could sell the M1.2 and M1.2-2000, we choose not to, as we feel there are better products available for the money (i.e. the M1). We have the option of selling almost every speaker made by Swans Speaker Systems (which is quite a few). However, to date, only the Diva and a few Swans models (D3.2, D3.1, M1) have met our price/performance requirements.


I hope this answers your questions, Duane. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance!!


Thanks again for the post!!


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ozmai



Indeed, the difference between the (2) M1.2's is their finish. While there are some differences between the M1 and the M1.2, we feel that these differences are slight, at best, and did not warrant the higher prices from our supplier. The M1 is the only speaker of its kind sold by **********, and we intend to keep it this way.


As I'm sure you've heard (and seen) before, **********'s business philosophy is to (1) provide unmatched customer service and (2) offer truly high-end audio technology at prices "real" people can afford. As a result, everything we sell must first be put through (and pass) OUR quality and price/performance tests. For this reason, we have nothing but the utmost confidence in EVERY single product we sell (Hsu, Outlaw, Exact, Perpetual etc...) and are able to offer these products at prices you've never seen before. While we probably could sell the M1.2 and M1.2-2000, we choose not to, as we feel there are better products available for the money (i.e. the M1). We have the option of selling almost every speaker made by Swans Speaker Systems (which is quite a few). However, to date, only the Diva and a few Swans models (D3.2, D3.1, M1) have met our price/performance requirements.
Steve, I'm not sure your business philiosphy works when you consider the value at the system level. :confused: As you mentioned previously, one needs a higher-end receiver (or separates) to drive the M1s. So what you gain in the relatively low cost of the speakers, you lose on the extra you have to spend for other components (in this regards, even the higher cost Diva 6.1 might be a better deal). What I find really attractive about the M1s is the ribbon tweeters. I've only seen ribbon tweeters on speakers costing upwards of $5000. The deal killer for me is the low sensitivity of these speakers. :( Low sensitivity speakers (in my opinion) puts an unnecessary burden on the amplification stage. It's no wonder the M1s are fussy about what they're mated to. Now I don't know what the extra cost of the M1.2 would be but it's supposed to have a "much higher" sensitivity than the M1s (89-90dB?). This suggests that the extra cost one spends on the M1.2s might be compensated for by the lower cost of electronics needed to drive them. At any rate, what other speakers using ribbon tweeters would be in the M1.2 price range? Have you considered the potential M1.2 value against these other speakers? If, on the other hand, the M1.2s are not much more sensitive than the M1s and they still need the same level of electronics as the M1s to drive them, then everything I've said is pretty much moot.


Colin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Banfield



Steve, I'm not sure your business philiosphy works when you consider the value at the system level. :confused: As you mentioned previously, one needs a higher-end receiver (or separates) to drive the M1s. So what you gain in the relatively low cost of the speakers, you lose on the extra you have to spend for other components (in this regards, even the higher cost Diva 6.1 might be a better deal). What I find really attractive about the M1s is the ribbon tweeters. I've only seen ribbon tweeters on speakers costing upwards of $5000. The deal killer for me is the low sensitivity of these speakers. :( Low sensitivity speakers (in my opinion) puts an unnecessary burden on the amplification stage. It's no wonder the M1s are fussy about what they're mated to. Now I don't know what the extra cost of the M1.2 would be but it's supposed to have a "much higher" sensitivity than the M1s (89-90dB?). This suggests that the extra cost one spends on the M1.2s might be compensated for by the lower cost of electronics needed to drive them. At any rate, what other speakers using ribbon tweeters would be in the M1.2 price range? Have you considered the potential M1.2 value against these other speakers? If, on the other hand, the M1.2s are not much more sensitive than the M1s and they still need the same level of electronics as the M1s to drive them, then everything I've said is pretty much moot.


Colin
Hi Colin,


Thanks for the message!!


I'm not sure I quite understand your philosophy. In terms of their performance, the M1 is by far the most speaker for the money that we have ever seen in a monitor featuring components of this quality. If you're building a system from scratch, the M1 will perform better with higher quality components. However, by purchasing high-value high-performance components (separates), you still retain the price to performance ratio as you now have a VERY high performance system (far greater than a receiver combo). In other words, the M1 may like higher quality components, but you will also realize far greater performance than a system using cheaper, more forgiving speakers mated with a receiver. I don't think anyone here will argue that adding a nice 5 channel power amp to your system is a step down, or not worth the money.


For example, as you said earlier, you know of very few ribbon speakers costing less than $5000.00 a pair. Do these speakers run well on reciever power? The answer is most likely no...so then, we ARE providing a product of equal performance ata mere fraction of the price!


I do see your point, Colin, and it is a good one. However, most very high-end speakers like high res systems (from cables to components) to truly shine. We can't control the value of other products on the market (amps and preamps), for now anyway, but can offer incredible audio technology designed for every market, at unbelievable prices. In other words, we're doing our part to provide the highest quality components for the price. It is now up to other companies (much like Outlaw and Hsu Research) to provide similar price to performance ratios in higher end gear (separates). One company has already begun doing this, and setting the trend for direct-to-consumer markets in the future.


If you take a look at our website, you will see the new line of Onix Electronics and separates. For just $799.00, you can get a Onix P3000 preamp and A-2150 150W/channel amplifier. Combined with the M1's, this system is a real category killer for the price!! Thus, the problem has already been solved in the 2-channel domain. With the emergence of more and more internet direct companies in the future of high-end audio, it's only a matter of time before other manufacturers begin offering similar values in multi-channel format.


Bottom line: the M1's are made to compete with speakers (Sonus etc...) costing FAR more. In this market, there are very few users driving $5000.00 speakers with brand name receivers. Thus, by providing a speaker of this quality at this price, I believe our business philosophy has been successfully realized!


BTW: I'm not sure what the "much" higher sensitivity rating on the M1.2 is, but I seriously doubt that it's over 87-88 db. At 85 dB, the M1 is not a huge burden on the amplification stage given the benefits you'll receive from the higher quality components.


Thanks again for the message, Colin. I hope I've shed some light on this subject. Please feel free to reply with any further concerns.


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Steve,


You make some good points. My issue with low sensitivity is simply that a typical 150 Watt amp has a lot more work to do driving an M1 speaker than say a Diva 6.1. You have much less headroom for transients etc. SPL level for a given power output is much less and so on.:(


The M1.2's sensitivity is 87dB - not that great but a significant 2dB advantage over the M1s nonetheless. The M1.2s also use a larger ribbon and a 6.5" midrange/wooofer vs the 5" woofer on the M1s. I guess what I'm saying is that I find the M1.2 a more appealing option than the M1. :) However, If you say that the difference in sound between the M1s and M1.2s is not that great, I'll take your word for it.;)


Oh well, it's been an interesting digression. You don't carry the M1.2s so it's back to the Divas like everyone else!:D


Colin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Banfield
Steve,


You make some good points. My issue with low sensitivity is simply that a typical 150 Watt amp has a lot more work to do driving an M1 speaker than say a Diva 6.1. You have much less headroom for transients etc. SPL level for a given power output is much less and so on.:(


The M1.2's sensitivity is 87dB - not that great but a significant 2dB advantage over the M1s nonetheless. The M1.2s also use a larger ribbon and a 6.5" midrange/wooofer vs the 5" woofer on the M1s. I guess what I'm saying is that I find the M1.2 a more appealing option than the M1. :) However, If you say that the difference in sound between the M1s and M1.2s is not that great, I'll take your word for it.;)


Oh well, it's been an interesting digression. You don't carry the M1.2s so it's back to the Divas like everyone else!:D


Colin
Thanks Colin!!


Of course, if you'd ever like to try the M1's just to see how they sound (150W is MORE than enough power to fully open them up), you're welcome to audition them for a full 30 days! I think you'd be surprised at how much "punch" these little guys can pack.


That said, how are the M200's treating ya? I'm sure you've seen the new review on www.enjoythemusic.com...these too are VERY special little speakers!! What application are you using them for?


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ozmai



Of course, if you'd ever like to try the M1's just to see how they sound (150W is MORE than enough power to fully open them up), you're welcome to audition them for a full 30 days! I think you'd be surprised at how much "punch" these little guys can pack.


That said, how are the M200's treating ya? I'm sure you've seen the new review on www.enjoythemusic.com...these too are VERY special little speakers!! What application are you using them for?

Hi Steve, I have no doubt that the M1s sound great. They're certainly quite a bit more portable than a 6.1:D


My M200s are great! Really opened up nicely in the months I've had them. Best of all, my girlfriend loves 'em! I plan on getting a better soundcard (probably an Audiophile 24/96) to see what these babies are really capable of. I use them in my home office...they sit about 3 feet away on my desktop.


Colin

P.S. Give my regards to Russell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
theranman Here's a link of a pic from their website. http://swanspeaker.com/company/py_in...rocessing1.htm and a nice photo http://swanspeaker.com/products/system/swans/m1_2.htm

I'm really jacked about this as I have gotten the WAF approval do to the hardwood finish which happens to match our decor more than the plain jane black. However if it doesn't tromp my M&K LCR55's then it's back with the 30 day guarantee to AV123. I'm really hoping this will be my holy grail for what I'm looking for. David
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top