[mdugovich]

Hello Everyone,

As you can see, I've definitely lurked around this DIY forum for several weeks. (along with other Audio Video topics in the further past). I understand if ya'll don't wanna help the guy who hasn't given any input back. BUT! Being the gentleman and scholars that you are, I wouldn't be surprised if I get some replies.

Anyways, I have a benq w1070 projector and am using Palight plastic for the screen material. Laird Plastics assured me that it is just a different brand of SINTRA. Online it states its an expanded closed cell pvc board, which I think is exactly what SINTRA is.

I've done my research (this forum), and started this project last week. I've decided to do a silver fire screen. I have all the paint required, the Earlex HV2901P and 1mm tip. I am ready to glue my board to my 1x4 built frame., where I will put duster coats on till its done. I'm putting a felt 4 inch border butting up to the Palight (wanted velvet but my gf's mom wanted to sell me felt where she works).

I'm sure I've overlooked some stuff, but here are the questions I have.

1. Is Palight acceptable?

2. In a living room that will see a good amount of natural sunlight during casual viewing, and only projecting 98", can my projector handle SF 4.0, or should I stick with my original plan of SF3.0?

3. How does one clean a SF screen?

I'm really nervous and excited about painting. This has consumed me over my last 2 weeks where I've been working midnight shift.

I'm at work now, so I don't have pictures. I'll put some up when I get time at home.
One of which is how I received a box from amazon with Metallic Silver Paint busted open and everything coated (including some carpet!)... haha

Thanks everyone. This online community is amazing.

Dugo

 

[MississippiMan]

Hello Everyone,

As you can see, I've definitely lurked around this DIY forum for several weeks. (along with other Audio Video topics in the further past). I understand if ya'll don't wanna help the guy who hasn't given any input back. BUT! Being the gentleman and scholars that you are, I wouldn't be surprised if I get some replies.

Anyways, I have a benq w1070 projector and am using Palight plastic for the screen material. Laird Plastics assured me that it is just a different brand of SINTRA. Online it states its an expanded closed cell pvc board, which I think is exactly what SINTRA is.

I've done my research (this forum), and started this project last week. I've decided to do a silver fire screen. I have all the paint required, the Earlex HV2901P and 1mm tip. I am ready to glue my board to my 1x4 built frame., where I will put duster coats on till its done. I'm putting a felt 4 inch border butting up to the Palight (wanted velvet but my gf's mom wanted to sell me felt where she works).

Hi, and welcome aboard! It looks as if your going down the right direction as far as all the needed components and materials. Well....everything except the "gf's Mom" business. Your embarking on a serious effort to create a special DIY screen that is to be/will be very high performance screen and you have a separate party dictating to you to use a sub standard material to trim your screen.

That GF must be a real "keeper" so I guess we'll have to go with that.

I'm sure I've overlooked some stuff, but here are the questions I have.

1. Is Palight acceptable?

The only way to really determine that is to go look at both. There is only "one" brand of Sintra, everything else is something else. Myself, I have used other types of "expanded closed cell pvc board", some coming from laird and some from Piedmont. One type comes with one side protected by a light green plastic shrink wrap. And sometimes the price difference can be quite a lot less.

But the real test is the smoothness of surface to be painted upon. Some varieties have a slightly bumpy texture...you don't want that. Go in and do the "touchy feeley" test with both types and make your decision based on that observance.

From the mention of your screen's size below I know what size Board your looking for, (4' x 8' cut to 48" x 86") but be certain the thickness you get is at minimum 6mm. However if your planning to have a border that applies directly to the Sheet, you would need to move up to 5' x 10' and have laird cut the board to 56" x 94". That would amount to having some wastage. Also, a 4" wide Trim boarder is a bit excessive for such a smaller screen. 3.25" or even 2.5" will look much better and make the screen appear larger and less "picture Frame" like.

You should make a determination as to which direction your going to go "frame size-wise" so I can suggest a correct frame-build design. The process isn't difficult by any means, but you do want to do it right the first time around.

. In a living room that will see a good amount of natural sunlight during casual viewing, and only projecting 98", can my projector handle SF 4.0, or should I stick with my original plan of SF3.0?

If you place the W1070 at 9' throw, I suggest SF v2.5 3.0 The newest formula using the Rust-Oleum Silver starts out already at a darker level than did the previous one that used Liqutex Silver.

3. How does one clean a SF screen?

When properly sprayed, and when one very lightly sands the 5th coat and then applies 2 finial Dusters, the surface is extremely smooth. After curing for 2-3 weeks, the surface is almost non-permeable. That is not to say it cannot be stained or permanently marked, but the normal things like Figer prints, and dust-dirt spots al can be wiped of using a soft cotton cloth that is lightly dampened. heavier deposits and you use a wetter cloth, applying it onto the spot for a few seconds, then lightly wiping. If that doesn't get it all, wait until that spot dries and repeat. What you do not want to do is "scrub".

As far as simply dust accumulation, using a long, fuzzy Lambs Wool Duster and brushing the screen is sufficient to clean it off completely.

I'm really nervous and excited about painting. This has consumed me over my last 2 weeks where I've been working midnight shift.

A little practice goes far as far as thinning some basic white paint to the point it strains easily and then doing some trial spray runs on some cardboard or a spare sheet of 1/4" Drywall you can pick up at HD

things like where you plan to paint, how you plan to hang the sheet while painting....all should be discussed prior to getting started. Don't rush in to get started before you are really confident...or at least less nervous.

I'm at work now, so I don't have pictures. I'll put some up when I get time at home.
One of which is how I received a box from amazon with Metallic Silver Paint busted open and everything coated (including some carpet!)... haha

Yeah....that has happened to me at least 50% of the time if I ordered only 1- 2 jars. They put a 32 oz Jar into a 12" x 12" Box and refuse to even put enough Packing Pillows to keep it from bouncing around inside. If they would only put a single piece of tape over the Lid, that would prevent the Lid from springing open. (...it only has two rows of Threads...)

At least since I had always ordered "Prime' they were quick to replace...if they were not out of stock. I stopped after 3 consecutive shipments came spilled, with the last flow coating my Fed-Ex Driver's pants. What a comical sight....my wife rinsing him off with our Garden Hose. Thank goodness the stuff is water based! Those uniforms cost a lot! Nowadays, if I must order Rust-Oleum Metallic, I do so through Lowes. The Jars then come in Factory Boxes.

Thanks everyone. This online community is amazing.

Dugo

Your welcome...coming from us all.

Be certain to ask first...squirt second.

 

[mdugovich]

The only way to really determine that is to go look at both. There is only "one" brand of Sintra, everything else is something else. Myself, I have used other types of "expanded closed cell pvc board", some coming from laird and some from Piedmont. One type comes with one side protected by a light green plastic shrink wrap. And sometimes the price difference can be quite a lot less.

But the real test is the smoothness of surface to be painted upon. Some varieties have a slightly bumpy texture...you don't want that. Go in and do the "touchy feeley" test with both types and make your decision based on that observance.

From the mention of your screen's size below I know what size Board your looking for, (4' x 8' cut to 48" x 86") but be certain the thickness you get is at minimum 6mm. However if your planning to have a border that applies directly to the Sheet, you would need to move up to 5' x 10' and have laird cut the board to 56" x 94". That would amount to having some wastage. Also, a 4" wide Trim boarder is a bit excessive for such a smaller screen. 3.25" or even 2.5" will look much better and make the screen appear larger and less "picture Frame" like.

You should make a determination as to which direction your going to go "frame size-wise" so I can suggest a correct frame-build design. The process isn't difficult by any means, but you do want to do it right the first time around.

Laird Plastics only had the 3mm SINTRA. Thats why I went with the 6mm Palight after he explained it to me. He also named some brands that weren't like SINTRA, and a lot of information that went over my head, so I took his word for it (Hopefully it doesnt burn me). It is perfectly smooth and he said no primer needs to be added to paint on it. Does it have a chance to hotspot even though its painted?

I built my frame out of 1x4s. Here is the pic, there is actually another vertical board in the center now. The size is 3.5 inches bigger than my 48 x 85.5 inch screen. So when the screen is attached, there will be 1.75 inches of wood around the perimeter of screen. The felt border I was going to use, was actually 3.5 inches. After your suggestion, I think I'm going to decrease the size. This should make it easier to attach a smaller, lighter piece to the frame.

If you place the W1070 at 9' throw, I suggest SF v2.5 3.0 The newest formula using the Rust-Oleum Silver starts out already at a darker level than did the previous one that used Liqutex Silver.

When properly sprayed, and when one very lightly sands the 5th coat and then applies 2 finial Dusters, the surface is extremely smooth. After curing for 2-3 weeks, the surface is almost non-permeable. That is not to say it cannot be stained or permanently marked, but the normal things like Figer prints, and dust-dirt spots al can be wiped of using a soft cotton cloth that is lightly dampened. heavier deposits and you use a wetter cloth, applying it onto the spot for a few seconds, then lightly wiping. If that doesn't get it all, wait until that spot dries and repeat. What you do not want to do is "scrub".

I have the rustoleum, so 3.0 it is!

A little practice goes far as far as thinning some basic white paint to the point it strains easily and then doing some trial spray runs on some cardboard or a spare sheet of 1/4" Drywall you can pick up at HD

things like where you plan to paint, how you plan to hang the sheet while painting....all should be discussed prior to getting started. Don't rush in to get started before you are really confident...or at least less nervous.

I do not have permission to paint in the living room. So I'm going to make a plastic lined room in the garage, and hang the screen up like its in its final resting place (french cleat). I've watched your videos, and will definately do some practice runs.

Your welcome...coming from us all.

Thanks again!

 

[MississippiMan]

The PVC Board is indeed designed to require no Primer and to receive paint directly. It's not glossy, but even so, the bright white surface is an essential part in retaining and utilizing the absorbed light that passes through the translucent SF paint.

• When you go to adhere the PVC Board to the frame, use a good adhesive that is a bit re-positionable like Power Grab Heavy Duty (clear)

• First, lay your board down onto the frame and square it to the dimensions you want leaving the exact size perimeter area around the edges (3"?)

• Make a heavy Pencil line showing that area. Apply a generous amount of adhesive within the inside of that line, and then spread it out very evenly so that there are no bumps or ridges. Make certain the adhesive placed on the central support is spread out evenly as well.

• Carefully center the PVC Board within the Marked interior, then press firmly over the glued portions. Be careful doing such because the material will want to slide.

• It would be advisable to place a few extra pieces of 1 x 4 within the open areas between the fixed frame so the PVC board might not try to bow inward even the slightest bit while the adhesive dries and cures. BTW, let the adhesive dry completely...don't rush moving the Board.

• Afterwards, and before you paint, tape or staple some cardboard strips that are at least 8" wide over the exposed Wood Frame, butting them against the PVC Board. This gives you adequate "run-out" area to go off the edges at the end of each Row and then drop a fist's distance and then start back.

• The above applies to the Top / Bottom edges as well, because starting and finishing along those areas requires an initial run off of at least 60% Row height.

Which brings me back to the Felt factor. The Flt will still fall well short of matching the 6mm height of the PVC Board, let alone not rising a slight amount above it. While this will no affect viewing performance, it will be quite noticeable when someone is looking at / inspecting your workmanship. Using a surface level tape, it is always best it applies directly onto the same surface as is being painted. But that requires a larger board....and that means more expense.


Instead you might consider getting a sheet of 1/4" MDF paneling, having HD rip you some 3" wide strips, and wrapping the strips with the felt, leaving the back raw so you can then use the Power Grab to glue the strips onto the frame.


Lastly, I can assume your going to glue the PVC sheet to the opposite side from those Bracing brackets....yes.

 

[mdugovich]

The PVC Board is indeed designed to require no Primer and to receive paint directly. It's not glossy, but even so, the bright white surface is an essential part in retaining and utilizing the absorbed light that passes through the translucent SF paint.

UPDATE:

I used the power grab adhesive, and it worked wonders.

For the felt edges, I acquired enough 1x3 boards for the boarder for free. They are in perfect condition. Do you think the 2.5" is a good size frame around the screen? If not I could attempt the MDF option.

So I had a few minor setbacks and have yet to paint the screen. I bought the 1mm needle for the wrong gun. I can pick up the RIGHT one for the Earlex 2901 tomorrow.

I have the SF3 completely mixed and in a 1 gallon paint can.

I have some gun specific questions:

For the silver fire mix, I believe it requests 24-36 oz of water. Should I be on the 36 oz side of the mix to get the proper spray for my earlex 2901?

I know my situation might be different, but do you find yourself setting the spray gun trigger do be fully pressed or a throttled position?

I've done some practicing with the gun, and I think I got a good feel for it.

GETTING EXCITED

 

[MississippiMan]

I run the Gun at full output using a 1mm needle kit.

Judge the viscosity of the Mix both by mixing & straining.

When you mix (stir) and lift the Mixing tool out, the paint should literally pour off the tool. Not slide. Not ooze. Not slowly drip.

When you strain the mix through the recommended Nylon Net Strainers, it should barely pool at the top, then as soon as you get a bit of a puddle, the paint then freely flows through at the same rate you pour it in....about as fast as you would pour Milk in a small glass.

Usually that means you should use 30-32 oz minimum with a 1.0 mm needle.

Just do the Dusters as they should be done (3' per second 70% Row overlap Run off the edge, Drop a fist's height, the start back onto and across )
....ignore how the first 2-3 coats look. By the 4-5th coats the surface will fill in considerably.

Lastly, unless you can taper the 3/4" high edge by 50%, using the 1/2" thick MDF will be much better and wholly avoid any chance of your seeing a edge shadow on the sides or Top areas of the screen.

 

[mdugovich]

Just do the Dusters as they should be done (3' per second 70% Row overlap Run off the edge, Drop a fist's height, the start back onto and across )
....ignore how the first 2-3 coats look. By the 4-5th coats the surface will fill in considerably.
.

One last thing before I start. So I am not expecting a solid screen till duster coat 5 or 6. Is this when I lightly sand? I have a 180grit sanding sponge.

How many total coats do I spray? I'm guessing it needs to pass the eye test, but is there a usual amount? 8-10?

Thanks!

 

[MississippiMan]

Usually by the 5th coat the surface starts looking like it is filling in nicely.

If you sticks to doing Duster coats at the speed (3' -sec.) and prescribed distance (12" - 14" max) and Row Overlap (70%) then 6-7 coats is usually sufficient if the surface is smooth and error free .

Dependent upon both technique, and the condition of the paint as it leaves the Gun, if surface texture is going to be am issue it will crop up by the 4th coat. Before that, if you Dust properly, and immediately place a clean Pole Fan or Box Fan directly toward the center of the screen from 6'-7' away (elevated...not on the floor) then the paint will dry especially fast and the droplets will shrink and flatten. Bumps usually are caused by the droplets drying too slowly...the outside surface dries in the shape of the droplet without shrinking.

Sanding is only ever required if surface texture develops. You do not sand unless it is necessary.

Elevating the room Temp if possible combined with a assist from a Fan can reduce the time waiting between coats to 15-20 minutes....certainly no more that 30 minutes with normal room temps and the sole use of a Fan.

Under good conditions, 7 coats in under 2 hours is entirely possible

 

[mdugovich]

Usually by the 5th coat the surface starts looking like it is filling in nicely.

I planned to paint yesterday, and had an issue with my gun. Apparently I need a conversion kit to put the 1.0mm needle in the earlex 2901. I was not aware.

Still, TO BE CONTINUED....


:-/

Thanks again for all your responses, Mississippi Man, you've kept me on track!

 

[MississippiMan]

I planned to paint yesterday, and had an issue with my gun. Apparently I need a conversion kit to put the 1.0mm needle in the earlex 2901. I was not aware.

Still, TO BE CONTINUED....

:-/
Thanks again for all your responses, Mississippi Man, you've kept me on track!

Your Welcome.

I 'm sure I've mentioned that people needed to get the 1.0 mm Needle Kit direct from Earlex for the 2901. It comes with the correct Air Diffuser, and Needle Nozzle. I just neglected to ask you if you had read such and gotten such when I noted you said you already had the 2901 and 1.0 mm Needle. Kinda sorta my Bad.

Call Earlex 888-783-2612 and ask for Direct Sales. Tell the Gentleman you speak to what you need and he'll hook you up. Also tell him that crazy MississippiMan guy sent you off AVS. Ya won't get a extra discount, but it does serve to remind him we are all thinking about his product on here.

 

[lindino08]

I'm following this thread closely, I'll be going down this exact path (hopefully) in the next month or two. Waiting on my darn projector to go on sale.

 

[mdugovich]

I'm following this thread closely, I'll be going down this exact path (hopefully) in the next month or two. Waiting on my darn projector to go on sale.

Glad to see this thread is helping someone other than myself!

Your Welcome.

I 'm sure I've mentioned that people needed to get the 1.0 mm Needle Kit direct from Earlex for the 2901. It comes with the correct Air Diffuser, and Needle Nozzle. I just neglected to ask you if you had read such and gotten such when I noted you said you already had the 2901 and 1.0 mm Needle. Kinda sorta my Bad.

Call Earlex 888-783-2612 and ask for Direct Sales. Tell the Gentleman you speak to what you need and he'll hook you up. Also tell him that crazy MississippiMan guy sent you off AVS. Ya won't get a extra discount, but it does serve to remind him we are all thinking about his product on here.

Painted! Screen looks amazing. Had the GF yell at me at me for going down more than a fist on the 1st coat, and it didn't happen again.

Can't wait to throw an image on it later today.

One problem I did run into was a couple dog hairs. Even though I made an enclosed plastic room and cleaned my fan, I had a few on the screen that I did not notice and painted them. (I was also scared to peel them off once I painted over them. I don't think this will have any affect on the screen, but is there a good solution to cleaning up the screen while painting?

I have LOTS of silver fire left. VERY happy with my experience so far!

Thanks Mississippi man.

I'll try to get some pictures eventually.

 

[MississippiMan]

As a general rule, if the hair is on the surface, you wait until the paint is dry then usually it will easily pull off, or roll off with a gentle rub.

Worse case is a "Large Dog" hair...or Human hair, and those I take a tweezers to and carefully grab one end and pull it off.

The next coat will erase whatever tiny line remained.

What you don't do is try using your fingernail or finger tip to remove a hair (or Bug or Fuzz) off a wet surface...you can only do that after the surface is dry and the evaporation has dessicated the hair or Bug or Fuzzy and left it "crispy".


Wow........
This is my 16,000th Post.
(avg, 3.6 posts a day over 12 years)

.......and it had to be about a Wild Hair.

 

[mdugovich]

As a general rule, if the hair is on the surface, you wait until the paint is dry then usually it will easily pull off, or roll off with a gentle rub.

16000 posts! That's incredible. Congrats!

So I tried out my screen out before putting the borders on, and to my dismay, I think I have the orange peel effect. It kind of looks like a painted living room wall. The night before, I thought it was a lot smoother than it actually was. It was saddening, but I'm willing to continue to work to a perfect screen. Whether I have to replace the PVC or if I can sand and recoat.

If I have time later today, I'll check out some of MississippiMan's past posts on this subject.

I'm down, but not out! Still excited.

 

[MississippiMan]

Sanding and re-priming is the usual fix.

To avoid Orange Peel, be certain to maintain 14" distance and at least 3' per second across the board.

If at all possible, elevate the heat in the room and use a clean Pole Fan to accelerate drying and assist in the shrinkage of the paint applied with each coat.

Bumps are usually cased by the exterior of the paint droplet drying too much before the interior and therein retaining their shape.

 

[mdugovich]

Sanding and re-priming is the usual fix.

So I've been working 72 hours a week the past month or so, THUS preventing me from continuing my project. Will a 180 grit sanding sponge be fine enough?

Thanks!

Matt

 

[MississippiMan]

So I've been working 72 hours a week the past month or so, THUS preventing me from continuing my project. Will a 180 grit sanding sponge be fine enough?

Thanks!

Matt

I suggest getting the Large Sanding Sponge (Fine-medium Grit Combo) available at Home Depot in the Drywall tools section. It's big...3" x 9" x 1' thick.

Use the Medium side first to gently knock down and smooth out texture, the the Fine side (also gently...don't "scub" ) to get it "slickery smooth".

Afterwards, wipe clean with a dry cotton cloth and reapply at least 3 light "quick" Dusters with 70% Overlap.