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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Background:
I've been thinking to make a separate thread on the DIY construction methods of hang-able acoustic panels, that can be located specifically only where needed.
Also moveable as your speaker type/location changes, your treatment needs may change.
Currently none exist that give a really good start-finish, I've searched AVS forum.

Just these for Fabric frames, which are integrated as part of the wall itself, not hanging and specific locatable.
(these are great threads btw for those whole wall coverage methods)
Fabric Frames - GPowers Thread , Another Fabric Frame Thread - Canvas Stretcher Bars

In my viewpoint, the Acoustical Treatments Master Thread is more for the theory, science, and practical application for acoustics of your particular room situation/issue, not the DIY construction methods, that will clutter it too much.

This thread purpose is NOT what your rooms acoustic needs are, rather once you study, plan, and develop your rooms acoustic needs, how to go about building it yourself.
[edit] since making this thread some specific acoustic issues have been discussed and addressed, however there are other more suitable threads for the theory, think of this as the application thread.

So, here it is, a dedicated thread for DIY construction methods of hang-able acoustic panels, to start I plan on sharing what I've done:
-DIY side wall absorption panels construction and hanging, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19947559#post19947559


-DIY ceiling absorption panels panels construction and hanging
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19987283#post19987283 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20074007#post20074007



-Here is removable lower tri-corner superchunk bass trap made with 1/2-13 thd rod and OC705, from post #40 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19993984#post19993984
and Upper tri-corner bass traps (since I made these it's been proven via gas flow resistivity its best for deep traps like these to use pink fluffy)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20085872#post20085872

Eric helped with his pink fluffy version of my movable corner bass traps
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/1312693-diy-construction-methods-hang-able-acoustic-panels-moveable-corner-traps-not-fixed-frames-5.html#post22131618 .

Discussion related to corner bass traps; gas flow resistivity, why cover them to reflect mid-high's, etc

others in this thread:
-smokarz built his own side wall 2' x 4' panels, post #36 here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19993492#post19993492


-localhost127 built his own side wall 4" thick 2' x 4' panels with exposed sides for more absorption , post # 86 here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20271296#post20271296



There are already "fixed" bass trap threads, here are links to them.
AVS site:

Show us your custom made corner bass traps (pics)
(btw, as of 2/5/0-11 pepar updated his pict links, I need chinaclipper and pred02 to do same )
Other site:
Gearslutz.com, here is a link to their "How I built my bass (broadband) traps..." sticky, over 31 pages of info!
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/87464-how-i-built-my-bass-traps.html

I added my own twist to building corner superchunk with "green" material, some might like a different approach.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20588838#post20588838

I'd like others who make DIY hang-able acoustic panels, whether absorption, diffusion, reflection, etc. to also feel free to add your construction techniques/methods there.
>>We need to learn from you!

[edit Feb 2, 2011]
placeholder for those already done DIY hang-able acoustic panels-pm me your details and I'll post link here

Side note:
I have this general suggestion for those wanting to learn about acoustics:

A) read this Acoustics/Treatment Reference Guide , via gearslutz, its a easy read in layman terms, starts you off with basics and good foundation with practical discussion. Studio acoustics and Home Theater acoustics.
From that, simple/straight forward advice via Jens Eklund:
Quote:

1. Learn how to make measurements: REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
Don’t do anything without measurements.

2. Define your MLP (Master listening position). Confirm with measurements.

3. Identify and treat your modal and SBIR - Speaker Boundary Interference Response related issues and educate yourself about different bass-absorbing techniques.
Other info: SBIR by Bryan Pape

4. Treat areas that otherwise creates early reflections.

5. If the room is big enough, add diffusers

Always base your decisions regarding different treatment, on measurements. Avoid thin porous only absorbers (including wall to wall –carpet, drapes etc.) unless a measurement indicates the need for it.


B) Knowing that for “best” audio/sound in a listening room, these parameters are tackled in prioritized order:
1. Speaker location, 2. Listener position, 3. Acoustic treatments, 4. Electronic correction.
Understand the small room acoustic model you will follow.
Looking at this link, everyone can see visually the various small room models, it's 7 pages from the book "Acoustics and Psychoacoustics Applied"
http://eetimes.com/design/audio-desi...n?pageNumber=0

C) If you have desire for more knowledge:
-read one of many books out there, a great 1st book is "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest, a perfect follow-up book is "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd Toole.
-shameless plug for Ethan Winers book also, "The Audio Expert".
.. ..

-study Ethan Winers site, http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
-Become familiar with the different small room acoustic models for home listening spaces
-This is also a 101 read on Room Acoustics, http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html
-SAE Home Acoustics info site has many definitions and explanations http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm
-There are many other sites on the web, like
........One of the first ones, StudioTips small room acoustics forum http://forum.studiotips.com/index.php,
........Acoustical measurements defined Rives audio http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue12/rives2.htm,
........RPG Acoustics Library papers http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm, etc.
-Be careful of info overload all at once

D) Measurement info/threads:

-online downloadable file with the Sound System Engineering chapter 6 on measurements http://www.focalpress.com/uploadedFiles/Books/Book_Media/Audio/9780240808307.pdf
-Get the hardware side of REW down quickly, this thread by member omegaslast dummy's guide on setting up REW and his blog http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html easy 101 read with pictures to walk you thru the mechanical of set-up and taking measurements
-Highly recommend Nyal Mellor's site, http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/Aco...surements.html , and a very detailed/helpful white paper http://blog.acousticfrontiers.com/st...ist.%20Rms.pdf
-Room Measurement & Treatment by "fotto" (Floyd)

- Envelope Time Curve - ETC - Impulse gearslutz thread
-Using energy time curve for acoustic analysis: by "mtbdudex" (Mike R)
-Why just using 1" thick porous absorber treatment is "wrong" http://www.avsforum.com/t/1369498/early-reflection-panel-thickness
-http://www.avsforum.com/t/1421599/etc-isd-gap-question ETC - ISD gap by
-Basic acoustic measurement primer v2.1 (via gearslutz "DanDan")
-http://www.realtraps.com/art_measuring.htm

-http://www.avsforum.com/t/1316623/diy-custom-printed-movie-poster-acoustic-panels-cheap/60#post_20147783 DIY Custom-Printed Movie Poster Acoustic Panels
-first reflection software: http://www.avsforum.com/t/822273/free-software-to-help-determine-your-first-reflection-points/240#post_22619555
-a while back I downloaded this Measurement/calibration sequence from Dennis Erskine.
RoomMeasurementSet-up.zip 4.990234375k . file
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Goals:
-Build a simple yet sturdy frame to hold 2' x 4' 2" thick fiberglass for absorption panels

-Keep frame fastening simple as possible, ie screws instead of dovetails/etc. Many ways to build a box.

-simple hanging method employing needed space to have 2" gap between side wall and fiberglass
(I desired more low freq absorption than just first order absorption, else direct mtg to wall would suffice for that, ask those Q pro/con in Master Acoustics thread.)

1st prototype Mock-up 2' x 4' panel w/o cloth cover.
This was quick and dirty, I used scrap 1 x 4, and routered a 2" wide 1/4" deep channel down the center to hold the fiberglass.
1" x 4" pine frame will be stained, just OC703 itself will be wrapped.
There will be a 1/2" or 3/4" gap @ back of fiberglass to frame edge on front side, and 1" or 3/4"gap @ backside.


Cutting speaker cloth and wrapping OC703


Frontside and backside.
.


Yes, for the frame enclosed panels I plan not to use spray adhesive, just pinned.
At some point in future I'd like to spend a few $'s and have a printed pattern for the panels, this makes that upgrade option easier.

Ok, so the trial came out ok, but i learned a few things:

1) make and use jigs for repeatability
2) I made the 2" wide router channel 1/2" from the front edge, and 1" from the back edge, which was too close for screw to bite into good, so changed that to 3/4" both sides

Next post shows how I made (6) frames and then hung them
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Router set-up, since I did not have a table saw router extension (about $300), I made my own as shown.

>>Caution, exposed moving parts here, use with care.

I used a MILESCRAFT TurnLock 3-in-1 Router Guide Kit Model #1223 , flipped upside down and clamped a board parallel to it for straight feed.

I used a 1" bit bought from HD for about $25.

Set the router @ 3/4" in from edge, a "fat" 5/16 deep, make 2 passes.



Material list for each 2' x 4' panel:

-(2) 1" x 4" x 6' pine boards for main frame boards

-(2) 1" x 4" x 23 1/4 for top/bottom "z" channel mounting board

-box 1 5/8" coarse drywall screws


Each 1" x 4" 6' pine board is cut 23 1/4" for top/bottom, the remaining piece becomes a side piece.


Edge boards are complete routered with 2" channel as shown.



Side pieces are routered as shown with the 1" bit (again make 2 passes) within 5/16 of the edge.



Use a secondary router with small bit to make the corners tighter as shown



Here is the drill jig I made for quick repeatability of the side board screw holes:



Using it to drill holes into the side boards

>>Having these true and square will ensure when using them to guide the 1 5/8 drywall screws into the top piece you won't have any problems.



I wanted the drywall screws to sit flush, used larger bit and carefully took away small bite of material as shown


(a counterboar bit is perferable method as "erkq" pointed out. In a pinch I take the drill that is slightly bigger than the screw head, do a manual mini-counterboar slowly, then put the drill in reverse and give full power with pressure.

The angled face of the drill going backward will remove all burrs/etc and make a fine seating area for the screw.)



Corner clamps to hold square while screwing in.

Careful, set torque to NOT go all the way in, do final tightening by hand or wood may split



I forgot to take a picture of the (2) "Z"channel braces, since they are 3/4" thick they fit flush inside the frame.

I located them 12" and 36" down from top, each had (2) drywall screws each side to keep from twisting when hanging onto the "Z" channel.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Wrapping fiberglass 101, it's itchy be careful!


Cut to size, my speaker grille fabric came from Joanns, 60" wide, I bought 15 yards, $8/yard with coupon normal $9.99/yard.



wrap a side and pin with 1 3/4" pins, angles to stay in from tension.



Complete the wrap, it's my first time, got decent at wrapping and pinning.

Went real quick w/o mess.



Frontside mounted.............Backside mounted (after stained the frame)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hanging 101 for DIY framed 2' x 4' acoustic panels:


I used alum "z" from ats acoustics, http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ac...are--IK12.html



They were set 3" in from each frame edge to have invisible look and the frame sorta just float there.


Note:

Wall to frame spacer/holders were pre-made, pre-drilled (each then acts as its own drill jig for holes into the wall), and painted wall color prior.

Mine were 19" wide and 3 1/2 tall, and 1 1/2 inches thick, basically scrap stuff I had lying around.


Measure twice, use blue tape for visual markers, locate top holder, mine was a 1 1/2" thick piece so the panel would have 2" air gap.

Hold with hand, drill into drywall with 3" deck screw, mini-level assures level, Locate bottom holder, drill into drywall with 3" deck screw.




Remove, use drilled holes to locate the 50lb plastic dywall anchors------Re-attach top/bottom holders, using 3" deck screw.



If measurements done correctly slight tweaks to get level----



this shows 2" air gap




That's all for tonight, later I'll post my acoustic cloud DIY making/hanging method....


I should say:

-the cloth wrapped fiberglass is nicely held rigid in, no worries about it ever coming out, even due to my kids possible "abuse".

That's why I made channels instead of just "boxing it in"....I was un-sure about the robustness of just that way.

-a 3 point mtg, 2 top and 1 bottom, is very secure and quite easy to locate and level, don't be concerned so much.

-the WAF is extremely high on these, she likes them!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex /forum/post/19947559


I wanted the drywall screws to sit flush, used larger bit and carefully took away small bite of material as shown

Nice job, detailed presentation. Thanks! But this struck me... just a little thing, though... why not just use a counter-sink?
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq /forum/post/19948023


Nice job, detailed presentation. Thanks! But this struck me... just a little thing, though... why not just use a counter-sink?

I agree - and edited the post above, the right tool for the job approach, honestly I don't have any countersink bits, just never bought them.

In a pinch I take the drill that is slightly bigger than the screw head, do a manual mini-counterboar slowly, then put the drill in reverse and give full power with pressure.

The angled face of the drill going backward will remove all burrs/etc and make a fine seating area for the screw.

My 75 year old dad has countersink bits and I've used them countless times growing up in the 70's, since he does not do DIY anymore I'll get them as "hand-down-to son" next time I visit.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex /forum/post/19947429


1st prototype Mock-up 2' x 4' panel w/o cloth cover.

Leave it to a professional engineer to make a prototype first.



Anyway, good job on the pictorials, more pictures of DIY is always a good thing.


For my on walls, I made the traditional frame for the 703 out of wood, then used one each of these guys:




-Suntan
 

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I would worry about vibration issues with a conventional picture hanger. It is designed to hold the top of the frame 1/4" away from the wall, so it would have most of the frame hanging free.


I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.
 

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great work mtbdudex, thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j /forum/post/19949445


....I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.

would you provide a bit for details for this method? sounds interesting...
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan /forum/post/19949404


Leave it to a professional engineer to make a prototype first.



Anyway, good job on the pictorials, more pictures of DIY is always a good thing.


For my on walls, I made the traditional frame for the 703 out of wood, then used one each of these guys:


-Suntan

How'd they work for you? Any rattles like jayn_j mentioned?

Prior to deciding I was going to have the 2" air gap, I was going to do something similiar, use these on wall with screws on the frame back - screw would be wedged in the "v" slot was my thinking, then felt at (4) corners to induce some tension into the system for rattle free.

Not sure how that would have turned out, since I did not "prototype it"


Now, I can see accuracy for leveling would be much harder with these than "z" clips.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j /forum/post/19949445


I would worry about vibration issues with a conventional picture hanger. It is designed to hold the top of the frame 1/4" away from the wall, so it would have most of the frame hanging free.


I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.

I was 90% going to do the DIY French Cleat method - my DIY screen uses them, but was worried about rattles and more so the need for more accuracy for level adjustment.

The "z" clips are really quite forgiving for alignment, about 1" of bearing surface up/down and side/side, that makes leveling not an issue.

Plus, they securly grab each other in a force/spring tension clamp, pretty slick guys at very reasonable cost.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex /forum/post/19949713


How'd they work for you? Any rattles like jayn_j mentioned?

Prior to deciding I was going to have the 2" air gap, I was going to do something similiar, use these on wall with screws on the frame back - screw would be wedged in the "v" slot was my thinking, then felt at (4) corners to induce some tension into the system for rattle free.

Not sure how that would have turned out, since I did not "prototype it"


Now, I can see accuracy for leveling would be much harder with these than "z" clips.

Works fine. My panels are about 2.5" total depth (with 2 703 recessed in about a quarter inch. But they would work the same even at 4 out (you just need to bring a surface back to the wall to hang it at the top and one at the bottom to stabilize it.)


As I completely wrapped the frames with the fabric, the fabric buffers between the walls and keeps things from rattling. If a person were to do bare frames like yours, they may want to put one of these at each corner.




As for centering. If you measure and put the cleat in the center, you should be good to go. Once again, the resistance of the fabric (or the rubber bumpers) against the wall allows you to trim the panels into plumb and they will stay there. Perhaps a little more attachment would be prudent if you have panels in high traffic areas. But mine are most up front and away from traffic (I growl at people if they think about stepping up on the stage
)


You can get a view of mine here:




As for the suggestion of double French cleats by someone Talk about overkill. I'm not filling these things with shot, just insulation.


-Suntan
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan /forum/post/19950695


Works fine. My panels are about 2.5" total depth (with 2” 703 recessed in about a quarter inch. But they would work the same even at 4” out (you just need to bring a surface back to the wall to “hang it” at the top and one at the bottom to stabilize it.)

hi, could you expand on this a bit further? i am looking for details....


sorry, i am not very technical when it comes to diy stuff...


i am making the same type of panels that you have......2" 703, 1"x3" pine (2.5" actual depth). covered the whole thing with fabric.
 

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When I said double french cleats, I meant one on the top and one on the bottom. The bottom one is not for weight. It traps the bottom and keeps it tight against the wall.


Smokarz, I don't have access to a drawing program here. I'll try to take a picture tonight. Basically, I created the frame and placed three eyelets recessed 3/8 - 1/2 inch in from the back edge. Two eyelets are 1/3 of the way down on each side. One is in the center of the bottom. Then string picture wire to complete the triangle. Pull until it is semi-taught, but allow 1/2 inch or so of play when pulling on the top. I mounted two heavy picture hanging hooks on the wall.


To mount, center the frame over one of the hooks, reach behind and snap it in place. Pull the frame horizontally so the hooked side is toward its closest edge. Reach behind and snap the other edge in place. Center the frame on the hooks so it hangs level.


The tension of the wire will pull the frame back tight into the wall. I use something similar to Suntan's dots, except they are flat and about 1/8 thick. Use 6 of them for a 27x41 frame.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j /forum/post/19951086


When I said double french cleats, I meant one on the top and one on the bottom. The bottom one is not for weight. It traps the bottom and keeps it tight against the wall.

Yeah, I know.


Even still, just one French cleat is total overkill for these things. They aren't that heavy.


If you're worried about them rattling, or being bumped off the wall by passersby, there are better methods of securing them than just having them rest on French cleats.


-Suntan
 

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Discussion Starter #17
While driving in a small industrial park this past weekend in Brighton I saw this print shop, stopped in and asked them about printing acoustic panels.


We talked for about 10 minutes, they can do what is needed and gave me (2) samples. The material is white then they print the image you have.

Just ballpark cost was $100-120 for a 54" x 56" printed panel, the roll is 54" wide so actually they are flexible to the other dimension.

There is a "fixed" cost for their time/set-up, then printing more than one may have some overall lower cost.

I gave both samples the "breathe" test, and both were flowable, which is needed for mid-hi freq.

What I'll do further before ordering some is get an already printed piece from them on both materials and take some measurements.

The blocky looking one was slightly less flowable.

Since I have speaker cloth, that will be my baseline.

(tests are to my ability @ home and inside, if summer I'd do outside for more accurate, since I work for auto OE and we have a full vehicle size NVH lab, I might be able to do a "g-job" during a lunch session for accurate tests)


I scanned the info, hard to see the 2 types of cloth weave in the scan.



Since another hobby of mine is Astrophotography, Top 10 in 2010 to shoot (Astronomy, non telescope) , I'll probably take some better pictures of the Milky way, Andromeda galaxy, etc, and use those for the prints.

(I'm getting a decent tracking mount/scope shortly)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex /forum/post/19982031


While driving in a small industrial park this past weekend in Brighton I saw this print shop, stopped in and asked them about printing acoustic panels...

Just in case you were not aware, you can have panels made with your choice of print.


Here is one, but there are a number of other places that will do it too.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html


Kinda takes the DIY out of it, but the option is there.


-Suntan
 

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Discussion Starter #19

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz /forum/post/19955723


anyone with more methods for hanging panels, please share. thanks

I'd also like to add some of you with completed Home Theaters may have your DIY hanging panels methods buried in your HT build thread, PM me that build/thread/post and I'll put a link in this thread top post to yours with "credit" to you.

fwiw, I'll be making some non-framed panels for my front wall in near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan /forum/post/19982221


Just in case you were not aware, you can have panels made with your choice of print.


Here is one, but there are a number of other places that will do it too.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html

Kinda takes the DIY out of it, but the option is there.

-Suntan

Those are sweet looking panels, and considering the time I've put into mine their prices are very reasonable for those not into DIY, as are some of the other sites (RealTraps, etc).


What I like about doing it with this small company is they are local - helping Michigan economy, I can have face-face time, etc.
 
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