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I can run some sweeps with them in the Juggernog cabinets (ported) and the sealed cabinet if anyone is interested in the results.
I'm interested. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing an NSW21 or 2 Lavoce 21s in ported cabinets.
 
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I can run some sweeps with them in the Juggernog cabinets (ported) and the sealed cabinet if anyone is interested in the results.
I’m interested in this. I just put dual Lavoce 21’s in ported cabs about 5.7 cuft (about 6.2 cuft with one slot port plugged). The port tunes are about 19 hz and 15.5 hz respectively.I’ve EQ’d these to being relatively flat (slight roll off starting 20hz) but I just can’t get the low end (sub 20hz) I’m looking for. I’m measuring (in REW) usable extension down to about 11.5 hz for the one port plugged but even with that I don’t get the room shaking rumble in movies that even my old Hsu STF-2 (10 inch) seemed to provide more of. Midbass is fine though so not sure what’s going on.

Would like to hear your experience with these Lavoces in a ported cab and how it does in movies for you in terms of providing that room shaking rumble. The only way I can describe what I’m hearing is that it sounds too tame for movies.
 

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I’ve EQ’d these to being relatively flat (slight roll off starting 20hz)
I'd try using a house curve with a LF Rise End at 30Hz:)
 

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I’️ve EQ’️d these to being relatively flat (slight roll off starting 20hz)
I'd try using a house curve with a LF Rise End at 30Hz/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
It behaves like that (house curve) when I turn on Dynamic EQ on my AVR. I can post graph later after my daughter is done using the computer for her online class. Either way it doesn’t solve the problem.
 

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I'm interested. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing an NSW21 or 2 Lavoce 21s in ported cabinets.
The LaVoce in larger ported cabinets are beasts. A while ago @chadsmith013 and I did a side by side test between a pair of UM18 full marties tuned to 16Hz and a pair of LaVoce in 12.5ft^3 tuned to 17Hz. He can chime in here too. To me, they were very similar. The LaVoce had more chest slam and sounded a bit louder. The UMs had more of a "presence" in the room and had a bit more in the lower range (IMO). We tested them on the Hulk fight scene and JW2 tunnel shootout. I think there's a write up on the build thread. I'll let Chad post the link if he can find it. If I had the choice to go either UM18 full marty or LaVoce large ported, I would take the LaVoce. What little gains the UM had in the lower range could easily be made up with an amp that could push them to their limits. My NX6000 just isn't enough for the LaVoce.
 

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The LaVoce in larger ported cabinets are beasts. A while ago @chadsmith013 and I did a side by side test between a pair of UM18 full marties tuned to 16Hz and a pair of LaVoce in 12.5ft^3 tuned to 17Hz. He can chime in here too. To me, they were very similar. The LaVoce had more chest slam and sounded a bit louder. The UMs had more of a "presence" in the room and had a bit more in the lower range (IMO). We tested them on the Hulk fight scene and JW2 tunnel shootout. I think there's a write up on the build thread. I'll let Chad post the link if he can find it. If I had the choice to go either UM18 full marty or LaVoce large ported, I would take the LaVoce. What little gains the UM had in the lower range could easily be made up with an amp that could push them to their limits. My NX6000 just isn't enough for the LaVoce.
Great. Which ever I decide (1 NSW 21 or 2 Lavoce 21) will be supported by big ported HS24s. I'd like to read up on the comparison that you're referring to.
 

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The LaVoce in larger ported cabinets are beasts. A while ago @chadsmith013 and I did a side by side test between a pair of UM18 full marties tuned to 16Hz and a pair of LaVoce in 12.5ft^3 tuned to 17Hz. He can chime in here too. To me, they were very similar. The LaVoce had more chest slam and sounded a bit louder. The UMs had more of a "presence" in the room and had a bit more in the lower range (IMO). We tested them on the Hulk fight scene and JW2 tunnel shootout. I think there's a write up on the build thread. I'll let Chad post the link if he can find it. If I had the choice to go either UM18 full marty or LaVoce large ported, I would take the LaVoce. What little gains the UM had in the lower range could easily be made up with an amp that could push them to their limits. My NX6000 just isn't enough for the LaVoce.
thats a pretty fair assessment...

so u saying i need a new amp for my Eminence 21s? lol
 

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I'd try using a house curve with a LF Rise End at 30Hz:)
Here's my freq response plot with and without Dynamic EQ on. With Dynamic EQ on it has a bit of a house curve. I can EQ down the midbass more to get a flatter initial response but that shouldn't really affect the missing low end rumble should it?

Maybe I'll try running some compression tests to see what's happening below 20hz at higher levels or just try running the subs hotter and see if that increases the rumble.

It just seemed like enough people have tried using the Lavoce 21's for home theater (low tuned) subs and say they are similar to the UM-18's which should absolutely crush the SVS SB-3000's that I tested and my HSU STF-2, but my Lavoce setup doesn't even seem to match up with those that well in low frequency "feel".
 

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If you are comparing it to the SVS then you probably are used to the rather high distortion in the ULF. the Lavoce's ULF will be much cleaner and thus you'd feel like you were missing something. Another issue apart from lower distortion is that ULF is harder felt on a concrete slab or non raised platform. If you wanted the feedback of ULF you'd either need a platform, insane amount of ULF or something like a BOSS or rumbler.

The UM18 has really good ULF sensitivity, my NSW's barely edge it out for ULF.
 

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If you are comparing it to the SVS then you probably are used to the rather high distortion in the ULF. the Lavoce's ULF will be much cleaner and thus you'd feel like you were missing something. Another issue apart from lower distortion is that ULF is harder felt on a concrete slab or non raised platform. If you wanted the feedback of ULF you'd either need a platform, insane amount of ULF or something like a BOSS or rumbler.

The UM18 has really good ULF sensitivity, my NSW's barely edge it out for ULF.
I’m on suspended wooden floor so my room is ripe for bass. With the SVS and Hsu my doors would rattle with low frequency material. They don’t do that with the Lavoce. The distortion thing is one of the differences I noticed as well at least in the REW measurements I have comparing the SVS to the Lavoces that I built, but when Godzilla is destroying a city I want my room to rumble. Is that just not possible no matter how much I fiddle with EQ on my Lavoces? I just want low frequency “rumble” to at least equal those lesser subs I’ve had.
 

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I’m on suspended wooden floor so my room is ripe for bass. With the SVS and Hsu my doors would rattle with low frequency material. They don’t do that with the Lavoce. The distortion thing is one of the differences I noticed as well at least in the REW measurements I have comparing the SVS to the Lavoces that I built, but when Godzilla is destroying a city I want my room to rumble. Is that just not possible no matter how much I fiddle with EQ on my Lavoces? I just want low frequency “rumble” to at least equal those lesser subs I’ve had.
Sounds like someone needs some HS24s. That should get you where you want to be.
 
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Sounds like someone needs some HS24s. That should get you where you want to be.
Honestly I think two UM-18’s would be more than enough for me but I’m just wondering why the Lavoces don’t give me as much low end rumble as you seem to suggest in your testing. I can’t tell if it’s just my EQ settings, box size, or the nature of the Lavoce drivers themselves that leave me feeling like something is lacking down low.
 

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Honestly I think two UM-18’s would be more than enough for me but I’m just wondering why the Lavoces don’t give me as much low end rumble as you seem to suggest in your testing. I can’t tell if it’s just my EQ settings, box size, or the nature of the Lavoce drivers themselves that leave me feeling like something is lacking down low.
I had the opposite effect..I had 2 dayton HO 18s in cyclops boxes...and i thought going to the lavoce i was going to lose some low end and pick up more in the top end..but the opposite was kind of true..I gained alot more in the low end.
 
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I’m on suspended wooden floor so my room is ripe for bass. With the SVS and Hsu my doors would rattle with low frequency material. They don’t do that with the Lavoce. The distortion thing is one of the differences I noticed as well at least in the REW measurements I have comparing the SVS to the Lavoces that I built, but when Godzilla is destroying a city I want my room to rumble. Is that just not possible no matter how much I fiddle with EQ on my Lavoces? I just want low frequency “rumble” to at least equal those lesser subs I’ve had.
Your doors might of been rattling from higher orders of distortion, its impossible to know without seeing the comparative models. Did you measure the Lavoce in the same position as the SVS?
 

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I had the opposite effect..I had 2 dayton HO 18s in cyclops boxes...and i thought going to the lavoce i was going to lose some low end and pick up more in the top end..but the opposite was kind of true..I gained alot more in the low end.
His cabinets are half the size of yours Chad. Although they are tuned low enough, they actually have two roll-offs. One big hump around 100Hz then another hump at tune. But that hump is several dB below the main 100Hz hump. These drivers have this same characteristic in just about any size ported cabinet you use. The difference being as the cabinet volume increases, the relative difference in SPL between the two humps gets smaller, but it never really flattens out. Unfortunately, if you want good low end extension with the LaVoce your probably going to need a bigger cabinet. @chadsmith013 is 12.3ft^3
 
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The LaVoce in larger ported cabinets are beasts. A while ago @chadsmith013 and I did a side by side test between a pair of UM18 full marties tuned to 16Hz and a pair of LaVoce in 12.5ft^3 tuned to 17Hz. He can chime in here too. To me, they were very similar. The LaVoce had more chest slam and sounded a bit louder. The UMs had more of a "presence" in the room and had a bit more in the lower range (IMO).
So, pretty much exactly what the model shows? ;)

Here's both with 1200W and limited to xmax:



When you did this comparison, were both without EQ, or both with EQ? Were they both in the same locations?
 

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Here's my freq response plot with and without Dynamic EQ on. With Dynamic EQ on it has a bit of a house curve. I can EQ down the midbass more to get a flatter initial response but that shouldn't really affect the missing low end rumble should it?

Maybe I'll try running some compression tests to see what's happening below 20hz at higher levels or just try running the subs hotter and see if that increases the rumble.

It just seemed like enough people have tried using the Lavoce 21's for home theater (low tuned) subs and say they are similar to the UM-18's which should absolutely crush the SVS SB-3000's that I tested and my HSU STF-2, but my Lavoce setup doesn't even seem to match up with those that well in low frequency "feel".
I would employ a steeper house curve, perhaps 10DB, and see how that goes. I don't use DEQ so I can't speak on it. It does seem that you begin to roll-off at 20Hz, are you running a hpf? Are you using a minidsp 2x4 HD? Seems like you have something funky going on around 40Hz.
 
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