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I am going to dive in.
DIYSG 1099 Speaker Review
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Is that so? You care to elaborate?
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I’ll pm you, don’t want to derail
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I couldn't find many speaker options for diy when i searched through the forums - I was able to read quiet a few posts about these speakers. Even if i find - they were not in affordable list or not enough.
I haven't purchased it yet...but i will be building it !! 1099 or 1299. Target is 3 LCR and Wish list is to include 2 Surrounds - as 1099's.
On the other hand - I purchased elemental design subwoofer - year later they went bankrupt. I will still take a chance..
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I don’t understand the comments from Steve. He tested a titan vs his Boston acoustics. He liked his Boston’s better. Has nothing to do with these speakers which are not the same. I believe he is selling Revel speakers which actually measured very well in these kind of tests and says not his cup of tea so to speak. Preference is a good thing, not sure why the digs. Revels were made by the research that went into the spinorama data. There is not much that will measure better with the same data.
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Which comment don’t you understand? I challenge you to find meaningful listening impressions regarding sound quality of diysg speakers on AVS forum beyond what Erin shared or what I posted.
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I owned some DIYSG speakers, they sound good to me. Not the Titans, but I really liked their original DNA 360 CDs and SEOS waveguide designs. I make my own speakers now, but I have heard and owned a couple of their designs. CDs and waveguides will not measure like soft domes but they are not supposed to be similar. They have a purpose.
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There is a clear pattern in Erin’s reviews of diysg speakers so far. Succinctly, they can play loud without compression, but the sound quality is not that great. To this reader, he has been tactful in his subjective comments, clearly holding back a little as compared to his normal subjective analysis. But what he does share gets the point across.
If he doesn’t feel that way, I’ll defer to him, but that’s the pattern I see. Owners tend get very defensive, so it’s not easy to discuss openly.
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With all due respect, Erin's opinion is Erin's opinion. Nothing more or nothing less.
I think I was pretty clear in this particular review when I said this:
The data backs this up. Heck, even the designer said he agreed with my assessment (see Post #10).
I don't think any of the DIYSG speakers have ever advertised themselves at being high-fidelity, have they? That's a genuine question. This, of course, doesn't mean they cannot be evaluated as such. But I usually only ever get bothered by claims that aren't true and in this case, I don't think that claim was made.
Going in to all these reviews what I was looking for was simple: what IS the performance? We had measurements but gated to 400Hz or 600Hz or whatever isn't telling; that's practically 1/3-octave smoothing or less by default. I have the ability to provide high-accuracy, high-resolution data on some speakers people are fond of so why not use that to help us understand the designs. Knowledge never hurts. This doesn't need to be a debate or an "us vs them" sort of thing. Frankly, the only speaker that has been disappointing so far were the Volts and that's simply due to the coaxial transducer so I can't say I'm really surprised by it. The HTM-12v1 has good sensitivity with an EQ'able response. The 1099 gets stupid loud but is bass shy and needs EQ as well to help it (though, it won't react as well to EQ as the HTM). And, these things are relatively cheap. The HTM-12v1 (and presumably v2) measure and perform better than the Klipsch Heresy IV; a speaker that costs $3k/pair. If nothing else, I'd already say that's a win for the DIYSG community.
The one thing I think we can learn from my measurements is that getting accurate, high resolution measurements is hard. You really have to be diligent. I know from personal experience, way before I got the Klippel NFS and spent literally days measuring a single speaker 140+ points in space between ground plane and 4pi measurements. And - as I've seen with other manufacturers - sensitivity spec can vary depending on what frequency you take the spec. I use an average SPL over a range of 300Hz to 3kHz. It seems the DIYSG measurements are taking the max SPL. Some manufacturers take the sensitivity at 1kHz. Some take an average at a different frequency band.
I'm not going to get involved in anymore of this debate. I hope you guys don't, either. The data tells the story and the literal designer of the speaker agrees with the data and my assessment. I don't think there's really anything controversial here. Not, at least, until there is another speaker out there that is within $1k/pair, can get louder, has 96dB+ sensitivity and has a more linear response than the 1099. Who knows, maybe Ryan will be able to use this data and make an improved version of the 1099 down the road.
- Erin
The data backs this up. Heck, even the designer said he agreed with my assessment (see Post #10).
I don't think any of the DIYSG speakers have ever advertised themselves at being high-fidelity, have they? That's a genuine question. This, of course, doesn't mean they cannot be evaluated as such. But I usually only ever get bothered by claims that aren't true and in this case, I don't think that claim was made.
Going in to all these reviews what I was looking for was simple: what IS the performance? We had measurements but gated to 400Hz or 600Hz or whatever isn't telling; that's practically 1/3-octave smoothing or less by default. I have the ability to provide high-accuracy, high-resolution data on some speakers people are fond of so why not use that to help us understand the designs. Knowledge never hurts. This doesn't need to be a debate or an "us vs them" sort of thing. Frankly, the only speaker that has been disappointing so far were the Volts and that's simply due to the coaxial transducer so I can't say I'm really surprised by it. The HTM-12v1 has good sensitivity with an EQ'able response. The 1099 gets stupid loud but is bass shy and needs EQ as well to help it (though, it won't react as well to EQ as the HTM). And, these things are relatively cheap. The HTM-12v1 (and presumably v2) measure and perform better than the Klipsch Heresy IV; a speaker that costs $3k/pair. If nothing else, I'd already say that's a win for the DIYSG community.
The one thing I think we can learn from my measurements is that getting accurate, high resolution measurements is hard. You really have to be diligent. I know from personal experience, way before I got the Klippel NFS and spent literally days measuring a single speaker 140+ points in space between ground plane and 4pi measurements. And - as I've seen with other manufacturers - sensitivity spec can vary depending on what frequency you take the spec. I use an average SPL over a range of 300Hz to 3kHz. It seems the DIYSG measurements are taking the max SPL. Some manufacturers take the sensitivity at 1kHz. Some take an average at a different frequency band.
I'm not going to get involved in anymore of this debate. I hope you guys don't, either. The data tells the story and the literal designer of the speaker agrees with the data and my assessment. I don't think there's really anything controversial here. Not, at least, until there is another speaker out there that is within $1k/pair, can get louder, has 96dB+ sensitivity and has a more linear response than the 1099. Who knows, maybe Ryan will be able to use this data and make an improved version of the 1099 down the road.
- Erin
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I 100% agree with this statement.
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From the designer of the 1099:
“This speaker is designed for the ultimate in audio while having the nagging requirement to use a center channel. There just aren't many speakers out there that can be flipped horizontally without screwing up the SQ, even if the marketing department at Polk thinks it's ok. So in comes the Elusive 1099! This thing has incredible output, clarity that is ranks among the best in the world, excellent horizontal coverage, and constrained vertical coverage. With many end users completely floored by the sound quality of these speakers, it's no wonder they're so hard to keep in stock. Keep your browser on refresh as they don't tend to stay in stock long.
The person who requires a horizontal center channel, yet wants uncompromising sound quality at reference levels should take a good look at the Elusive 1099. This speaker fits the bill while so many others simply can't!”
Statements have been made by Matt for each design on the forum linked to from diysg speaking of high fidelity.
This raises the question of what constitutes high fidelity. For the most part, everyone wants it all. High sensitivity, high SPL capability, and smooth frequency response on and off axis. No one wants speakers that play loud and sound bad. I have to wonder what Ryan could do with the same measurement equipment. Maybe the future is in DSP corrected frequency response with driver and layout selection to assure good off axis performance.
I just looked and there are 25 owner listening impressions on the diysoundgroup website.
Denovo Audio Elusive-1099
Did you miss the audio GTG's over the years where many people got together and listened to a bunch of different speakers before rating them and posting their listening impressions? They were posted on AVS. Or the build threads where people discussed the differences in what they built with what they just replaced? Or aren't those 'meaningful' to you because they're just some regular guys listening and giving opinions on their stuff?
You preferred the sound of your speakers over the Titan-615. No problem there, we get it. But you seem to have a hard time believing someone else can have a different opinion.
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