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How did such an informative and detailed post devolve into an "I've never tried broccoli but I know I don't like it" thread? If everyone had the same tastes there would only be one type of speaker ... and car, and art, and whatever.

FWIW, I'm an exceedingly happy 1099 owner. Erin, thanks for the great review!
 
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id want fidelity in the arena of 1500-2000 per pair bookshelves like a Sierra 2ex, ls50/R3, BMR, but in a high efficiency design…. Or, I’d spend the extra to get that level of fidelity and high efficiency if it was a bit above that but DIY.

DIYSG, historical hasn’t moved a lot of kits in that type of price point. Hence my curiosity about where the fidelity is at the price point they hit…. Maybe there isn’t a middle ground between DIYSG high efficiency designs, and an M2. I have no idea, lol! But fun to try and figure out. The measurements are key though to know how to compare so many speakers when you can’t personally listen to each!
There's plenty of middle ground for a high end, high efficiency kit, they just don't get ordered. :) In the big SEOS thread we discussed designing some much higher end speakers but most people thought their spending limits would be around $600. The Maximus-12 was a really good design in that price range done by Jeff Bagby and only about 6-8 people built them. It used a very nice sounding compression driver, top of the line B&C midrange and the custom Magnum-12 woofer that two manufacturers were using in some speakers costing over $10k.

Jeff spent 6 months on the design and the run of 12" woofers cost more than my car when new. The bummer is that DIY guys only used about 20 out of the 200 woofers. An audio company that no one's really heard of selling completed speakers for $7500 used 3-4 times that amount in a speaker that I didn't think was as good. So that audio company sold $500,000 of assembled speakers in the same time the DIY guys ordered $6000 in kits. That was an eye opener for sure. The Maximus-12 didn't go away because it was a bad speaker, unfortunately it went away because it was a DIY kit that didn't get ordered very often. Kinda sad.

5 years ago I talked to two manufacturers about plate amps for active style speaker kits. I've got some nice high end woofer samples and probably every brand of compression driver you can buy sitting here on a shelf. I even have four custom Beryllium diaphragm samples for the DNA-360 and B&C DE-250. But the cost of the project would be huge and I don't think it would ever break even.

I realize some of that is no advertising. But most of it is because the DIY market is incredibly small and even smaller for those types of speakers, especially expensive ones. Believe it or not Overnight Sensations are still the best sellers by far and people like them even though their response is pretty rough. So if a $600 high output full range kit using great parts (designed by Jeff Bagby) can't move the needle, I'm not sure what would for that type of kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Honestly, I don't know how you guys are breaking even on the 1099 kit. I mean, I know you aren't losing money and I know that your goal isn't to spend countless hours selling products and designs to not get any profit whatsoever... but I can't imagine it being much at all with everything the 1099 kit comes with.
 

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There's plenty of middle ground for a high end, high efficiency kit, they just don't get ordered. :) In the big SEOS thread we discussed designing some much higher end speakers but most people thought their spending limits would be around $600. The Maximus-12 was a really good design in that price range done by Jeff Bagby and only about 6-8 people built them. It used a very nice sounding compression driver, top of the line B&C midrange and the custom Magnum-12 woofer that two manufacturers were using in some speakers costing over $10k.

Jeff spent 6 months on the design and the run of 12" woofers cost more than my car when new. The bummer is that DIY guys only used about 20 out of the 200 woofers. An audio company that no one's really heard of selling completed speakers for $7500 used 3-4 times that amount in a speaker that I didn't think was as good. So that audio company sold $500,000 of assembled speakers in the same time the DIY guys ordered $6000 in kits. That was an eye opener for sure. The Maximus-12 didn't go away because it was a bad speaker, unfortunately it went away because it was a DIY kit that didn't get ordered very often. Kinda sad.

5 years ago I talked to two manufacturers about plate amps for active style speaker kits. I've got some nice high end woofer samples and probably every brand of compression driver you can buy sitting here on a shelf. I even have four custom Beryllium diaphragm samples for the DNA-360 and B&C DE-250. But the cost of the project would be huge and I don't think it would ever break even.

I realize some of that is no advertising. But most of it is because the DIY market is incredibly small and even smaller for those types of speakers, especially expensive ones. Believe it or not Overnight Sensations are still the best sellers by far and people like them even though their response is pretty rough. So if a $600 high output full range kit using great parts (designed by Jeff Bagby) can't move the needle, I'm not sure what would for that type of kit.
thanks for weighing in Erich, I remember the discussion back then, and it really did seem like it was something folks "wanted", but not enough to actually purchase...

Maybe you should pull that old Maximus out and send one to Erin. If it does well enough, you should find a cab maker and sell it completed for 2k a pair, as you'd have no competition! (or sales without advertising i suppose!)

I just know that a number of other "traditional" designers have made statements that high efficiency designs could never be "hifi", and I've always thought that was odd...
 

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That magnum 12 driver is such a great driver. Even when I built 21’s I still wanted to use them. Very flexible design and such a great sound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Honestly, I don't know how you guys are breaking even on the 1099 kit. I mean, I know you aren't losing money and I know that your goal isn't to spend countless hours selling products and designs to not get any profit whatsoever... but I can't imagine it being much at all with everything the 1099 kit comes with.
There's also about $35 in the price of a 1099 kit to cover "free shipping", but having just one person here in kits helps keep costs down. :) They are very time consuming so my sister used to help count out all the little parts, cut gaskets, inspect woofers, wrap midranges, etc.

I've definitely lost money on some models, but figure things average out over time, or better yet I try not to think about it too much. Out with the old, in with the new.
 

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7.1 - 2x V.B.S.S / 3x 1099s / Klipsch Side&Rears
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Don't have much to add, other than I still love mine.
..and I really appreciate the testing and technical data offered by these tests. Even if I don't understand all of the data. ha
Not quite sure I agree with a 'lack of reviews of sq'.. I read mountains of reviews/comparisons/g2g before I purchased.
They didn't always win the competitions, some people disliked certain things.. and sure. Of course that's a thing.
Why would we all like the same sound. These were my choice after lots of research and silly questions.. and I still think they are tops.

I compare my 1099s in stereo, to a set of helix ribbons nearly every day.. and I still love the 1099s.
For certain songs, where a more precise sound stage doesn't add much.. (which the accurate helix's kill it) the 1099s kill it with a room full of sound.
I'm no golden ear, nor do I claim to know what proper hi-fi should sound like.. but to me.. you probably can't go wrong with the value of most diysg (or similar DIY) speakers.
I look forward to the next speakers checked out for testing.. and thanks again to all the work from everyone in this community (especially Erich!).

That's what I'm hear ;) for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 · (Edited)
I normally create video reviews but thought I'd do something different this time. Ryan Bouma joined me for a chat about his DIYSG 1099 speaker design and explained some of the process and goals with the design. I really appreciate his input here and I think there is a lot to be learned from those who are out there building and creating projects for all to enjoy.

FWIW, this video - like all my "interview" videos - is not monetized.

 

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Excellent! Loved it. You're a great interviewer Erin! Thanks for putting that together. So good to hear from the Elusive Ryan Bouma :)
 

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Outstanding review! These speakers have been my favorite since joining this forum even though I have yet to get my hands on a set. Just the thought of building my own set from scratch has been a project I've yet to cross off my list. These things are so elusive!! Can't tell you the amount of times I have checked for updates on flatpacks or the entire LCR kit.
 

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Thanks for the video Erin and Ryan! There is some great information in there. What is apparent to me is that the design goals are most likely to be different for each speaker. And that speakers designed specifically for home theaters typically do have different design goals than say a pair of expensive audiophile speakers designed for stereo listening. Also, each home theater is likely to have some different design goals than someone else’s home theater. And it is important for us to keep these design goals in mind when selecting speakers and other components. That is why having independent objective measurements and subjective listening evaluations from experts along with the information from the designers is so valuable to all of us.

One goal of most of us theater owners, especially those of us without big budgets, is getting a good return on our investments (or “bang for our bucks”). Investing in nine speakers for a theater, in my case, is quite different than investing in two speakers for stereo listening. And it is abundantly clear to me that we are getting a very good return on investment from the DIYSG kits. I have no problem trusting that a speaker that sounds good to them will sound good to me.

Keep up the good work, it is very valuable.
 

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I can't thank you enough Erin for not only taking the time to measure and review the 1099 speakers but also the video you created with Ryan, I enjoyed both immensely.

First off let me say I'm a 1099 owner and I love these speakers, so I'm letting you know off the bat that I'm bias. It's been said a number of times but these are not audiophile speakers, they were built for dedicated home theaters. The way the speakers were tested without a subwoofer put them at a disadvantage because while it's in line with how Erin tests all of his speakers the 1099's require a sub no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Also personally without EQ even with subs I'm not a fan of how they sound for 2 channel music. However with EQ and subs at relatively medium to high volumes I think they are very impressive.

So with that said given how they were used, the results should be of no surprise to anyone who owns these speakers. It's not a knock it's the reality of one of the negative attributes of a REALLY awesome speaker. I haven't read or talked to anyone who owns these speakers and is anything less then ecstatic about them.
 

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Outstanding review! These speakers have been my favorite since joining this forum even though I have yet to get my hands on a set. Just the thought of building my own set from scratch has been a project I've yet to cross off my list. These things are so elusive!! Can't tell you the amount of times I have checked for updates on flatpacks or the entire LCR kit.
Distill is a free Chrome extension that will notify you of page changes you wish to monitor, so long as you leave your computer open and Chrome running. The offline version is fee based.

Might help you so you don't have to check while you should be sleeping, lol.
 
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