AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,232 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After returning from CEDIA, my first, I was amazed at the PQ of these units.


Of course everyone was showing off there picture with either the JVC D-VHS (clips from 2003 Super Bowl, The Academy Awards - primarly ABC recordings of over the air broadcase I think) and 480p DVD.


The Loewes new Atricos 55" was outstanding! The best pq IMHO. But the MSRP was $8K.


Next in line was the Toshiba 57" Lcos. It was displayed in the rear of the booth on an end cap next to walled hallway. They should have given this baby better real estate! Another fine picture. The rep was proud to say this unit just dropped 3K to $5499 MSRP.


Finally, not the last is bad in this bunch, was the Samsung and Optoma (61" MSRP $5999). Both again where great but I think the Optoma edged out the Samsung a touch but not much. The did on Samsung is you can't get a 61" (MSRP $4999) unit anywhere and from what I can tell their firmware is buggy and constantly being upgraded (don't get me wrong it's good that they are least upgrading and providing that to customers as a fix).


Are there any other worthy contendors? It was a big show I could have missed something. I did not get to spend much time in the Sony booth, Panasonic (in this class) did not impress me, RCA had some techincal difficulties (actually a rep or dealer monkeyed up the remote as I recall) and Hitachi was pushing LCD RPTV and plasmas.


Will scalers improve these units especially if you go higher end like the Faroudja, *** or Key Digital? A recent reveiw of the Toshiba Lcos unit said the internal scaler did a great job and if read between the lines an external unit was not required.


Suggestion or comments are welcome. Please don't flame me for ignorance, lack of technical jargon, spelling or not reading the FAQ first because I now where you live!


Regards,

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,839 Posts
I haven't seen the Atricos bet the rest of your list pretty much describes my short list of "best sets to keep an eye on".


The current word on the 2003 Tosh LCoS line is that it has been delayed due to chip availability. No clear date on when these will be out for general consumption. Note that the Tosh scaler does very well on 480i/p or 1080i to 1080p scaling, but is reported to not fare so well on scaling 720p. The quick answer here is "don't feed it 720p". Between it and the DLP sets the Tosh also has (IMHO) the best SD picture of the bunch and a perhaps better HD picture. The DLPs can tend to be brighter and perhaps exhibit a bit more contrast, but it seems very marginal to me.


I saw the Optoma 65" the other day and was impressed. A very big and bright picture. Very very nice on an HD image, but progressively worse on a worse image. Regular ESPN, for example, looked grainy. Having viewed the same on my Tosh LCoS I can tell you it can be better. Of course this was also a multi-split component signal so degradation may have been a factor as well.


The Samsung DLP also tends to get hit for sucking on SD images. Some of this is inherent in the one-chip DLP technology. Note that the one-chip Phillips LCoS I saw looked even worse.


If I had to pick one today and they were all available I would take the 2003 LCoS (I'm supposed to get a 65" exchanged for my current 57"), but if availability isn't fixed there then I would be wavering between the Sammy and Optoma. Another benefit of the Sammy, BTW, is broad availability and support, including A LOT of support on this forum.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,232 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks BTDT.


DVD Etc. just did a review on the 57HL52 and raved about it but antoher magazine, Perfect Vision I think, said the new model was 57HLX53 with a release date of August while the 61|63" was slated for October. I'check the mag pile tonight and get better info.


What gives here? The Toshiba rep told me the latest unit WITH THE 3K PRICE REDUCTION should be in stores with limited quantiy by month end.


Regards,

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,975 Posts
Quote:
Between it and the DLP sets the Tosh also has (IMHO) the best SD picture of the bunch and a perhaps better HD picture. The DLPs can tend to be brighter and perhaps exhibit a bit more contrast, but it seems very marginal to me.
BTDT, are you actually saying that you feel the Sammy HD performance is that close (and maybe just as good) as your Toshiba? Not ever having had the opportunity to view the Toshiba I've been under the impression that it was significantly better....


ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by mmiles
Thanks BTDT.


DVD Etc. just did a review on the 57HL52 and raved about it but antoher magazine, Perfect Vision I think, said the new model was 57HLX53 with a release date of August while the 61|63" was slated for October. I'check the mag pile tonight and get better info.


What gives here? The Toshiba rep told me the latest unit WITH THE 3K PRICE REDUCTION should be in stores with limited quantiy by month end.


Regards,

Mike
Mike,


Hmm. So the Toshiba rep at CEDIA told you month-end, and was apparently unaware of any delay? In another thread someone reported the Tosh reps being aware of the rumored delay. The senior CS rep I am working with isn't aware of it either.


I wish I knew what the real deal was here....


BTW, the larger 2003 Tosh LCoS is the 65HLX83. It is a 65"-er.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by R11
BTDT, are you actually saying that you feel the Sammy HD performance is that close (and maybe just as good) as your Toshiba? Not ever having had the opportunity to view the Toshiba I've been under the impression that it was significantly better....


ron
R11,


I haven't watched enough HD on the DLPs for long enough to make a good call on this one. I would expect the Tosh to be better given the larger resolution and the 3-chip design. There are a lot of artifacts (dithering and such) reported on the DLPs that don't occur at all on the Tosh LCoS (but are perhaps even worse on the Phillips 1-chip LCoS). The Tosh is extremely sharp -- even close up -- with a good HD image. The DLPs if you get to close start to show you the kind of dithering they are doing to simulate the full image. My brain doesn't like the latter approach -- giving me a headache -- which was a major reason I finally went with the LCoS.


Just to be fair, I think that both the Sammy DLP and Tosh LCoS provide good to great HD. The LCoS is better, but it is up to you whether the price differentials are worth it. The Optoma DLP looked better to me than the Sammy DLP, but again there is a price difference and fear of future maintainability. All of the DLPs degrade appreciably when given worse source material.


JMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
Mike, I think you mean the -82 and -83 models, not the -52 and -53.


Anyhow, as BTDT indicated, it looks like the -83 LCoS's won't be out for a while. Don't bother looking for your magazines--any info in them is out-of-date (the deadlines for them were well before Cedia), as was the Toshiba rep's statement.


Hearing things like "indefinite delays" being said, I'd be surprised to see the new models out this year. The pessimists (e.g. Rogo) are saying they may never come out.


My problem is, I need a new television now. We've finally moved to our new apartment, and a 32" set doesn't work very well at a 16' viewing distance. (Binoculars are not an option.)


I can't wait until next year, let alone maybe never. I'm seriously considering the Sammy DLP. I know it won't be as good as a LCoS, but as long as I don't have rainbow problems (I've only had a few minutes in a store to check it out), I think that's the way I'll go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,172 Posts
The scaler in the Toshiba LCOS is actually not very good. It is outperformed by the scaler in the $200 Bravo D1 -- according to owners of both.


-------------


"The pessimists (e.g. Rogo) are saying they may never come out."


I'm not sure I'm a pessimist. I've just seen three LCOS sets reach (or nearly reach) the market only to be killed after sales of
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,839 Posts
Yes, Mark is a supporter of the beauty of LCoS but doesn't allow it to color his grasp of reality.


I am also very concerned with whether the 2003s will ever appear. It is very hard to get good information on what is going on. The current forum info is that Hitachi can't meet Toshiba's volume requirements, and Tosh doesn't want to do a production run without a reasonable number of chips.


My thought is that Hitachi realizes that they can't produce enough QUALITY chips in the quantity desired. Perhaps the 2003 LCoS was an example of not taking enough care to make certain that each LCoS chip was relatively perfect. Or they have discovered what I believe is a sensitivity of their particular version of LCoS to the red wavelength. This is where image retention, the basic racetrack effect, and my extreme racetrack effect come from. If this in fact involves Hitachi realizing they have to reduce their yield rate or re-engineer the chips then the wait could be very very long....


This all brings me back to the question whether my brain can learn to not get dizzy when watching DLP :). Plasmas are quite nice, but I really like the no-burn-in thing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,232 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok here's the deal on the model number bowamba...


The Perfect Vision Sept/Oct 2003 stated the 57 H L X 83 would be available in September while DVD Etc reviewed (gave it a 99!) the 57 H L 83.


Are these the same unit?


Who knows.


Regards,

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,172 Posts
Those are the same unit.


The real model number has no X.


It will definitely, positively not be out in October according to Toshiba.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top