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Well, without doing an actual shootout, on Friday I went over to abeer's house, and he had (i believe) an NEC CRT with 8" guns of some dort and an HTPC. He was saying that it still needed some convergence tuning, color tuning, among other things. But comparing the same Dinosaur DVD on his system versus my DLP, there is definitely a couple of levels difference in Black level. I would say the CRT's would STILL need to be blacker to get true blacks. I don't even know if that is possible! I tweaked my contrast, color, and brightness levels a bit more, and I got closer, but the CRT's are still king of the blacks. Don't think they will ever get close, but even though I sound disatisfied, and could always improve, I am still quite happy with my setup. =>


Enuf ranting.


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Klutzo,

the newbie HT Boy.

BA mains, Energy surrounds and sub.

Proxima DX3 main FP

Sharpvision Backup FP

Sony Wega aux monitor

Dalite 2.8 Gain screen

Sega Dreamcast (various controllers)


Please, feel free to visit the klutzoplex! Click the link below. => www.klutzoplex.f2s.com
 

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DLP, LCD, or DILA users can try a Stewart Grayhawk or similar gray screen in an attempt for deeper blacks if it's an issue for them. Just a thought to add to your comments.


I agree that CRT is still king of blacks.
 

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DLP's can get great blacks, except you would have to pay for it. I went to AMC theaters here in Orlando where they have a theater with DLP cinema showing Toy Story 2 and later The Emporer's New Groove. The blacks were better than any CRT I've seen and better than film. I think you have to spend at least 30K on a 3 DMD projector instead of the single chip out there. Go to www.dlp.com and you can get info on every DLP manufacturer out there
 

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Generally CRT's have the best blacks. DLP's are definitely improving, though. The Seleco HT200DM does very well in that department. Stewart's grayhawk does a great job improving black levels on digital projectors. Vutec is coming out with an acryllic screen that is literally black...and I mean black! Yet it has a gain of 2.8! I will be reporting on it after Cedia this year. It should be available towards the end of the year. Can't wait!


Thanks!


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Jason Turk

AV Science, Inc.
http://www.avscience.com

716-454-1460 ext.204

[email protected]
 

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Quote:
Vutec is coming out with an acryllic screenthat is literally black...and I mean black! Yet it has a gain of 2.8!
Jason, do you want to expand on that. I don't see how that is possible. What exactly does it mean to have a black screen with a 2.8 gain. What is gaining? I realize you don't have much information at this point but can you explain the theory behind the concept?
 

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It comes from a technology in Japan. I talked with my rep but we still didn't have all of the details. From what I understand it is an acrylic material, similar to that of a modern RPTV, and it appears black just like an RPTV that is turned off. How they acheived a gain of 2.8 I have no idea...yet. That is one of my missions at Cedia...to pick the brains of the people at Vutec. This is a 3/8" thick material, so it is not available in a retracable screen, only fixed. I will be doing a report after Cedia in the screen section on it. It sounds amazing!


Thanks!


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Jason Turk

AV Science, Inc.
http://www.avscience.com

716-454-1460 ext.204

[email protected]
 

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Quote:
I think you have to spend at least 30K on a 3 DMD projector instead of the single chip out there
30K ?, no problem. I'll just have to wait untill next month paycheck comes, and the month after, and the month after, and the month after, and the month after........... and then, maybe at the year 2065 I'll be able to afford it.

There is even a bright side to it, at 2065, WAF factor won't be an issue, since she'll be long gone (and probably me either).
 

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If you look at a reflection of a scene in the side of a truely black and polished car, the true test for paint freaks, the reflected image is true in color to the source of the reflection. And they are right. So it seems that this might not be so far fetched to me. Vince
 

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I borrowed a NEC LT80 a while ago, and the black areas seemed very dark to me (better than my direct-view CRT) BUT there was far too much of it - any shadowed areas had no detail at all. (400:1 contrast, supposedly) Shadow detail is much more important to me than black areas being "black". I haven't seen many projectors of any kind; does a claim of "great blacks" = "great shadow detail"? Actual black is boring; there's really very little of it in any scene. However, when I can't see half of a face because it's dropped off the gamma table, I am unhappy...


So, how does "black level" really relate to shadow detail - in CRT or digital?
 

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bbordner,


The two go hand in hand. I adjust the brightness on my CRT projectors simply by reducing the light level until the letterbox bars disappear (even then I'm seeing shadow detail). But from there I kick the brightness up just a smidgen. At that point all the shadow detail is present and black is still truly black.


Bob Wood


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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's what I started tinkering with as well.. played with my brightness and contrast sliders... *SIGH* oh to get a 30K 3 chip DLP... =>


Hmmm.. first grey screens, now black screens. I S'pose Stewart will call their's the BLackhawk... =>


------------------
Klutzo,

the newbie HT Boy.

BA mains, Energy surrounds and sub.

Proxima DX3 main FP

Sharpvision Backup FP

Sony Wega aux monitor

Dalite 2.8 Gain screen

Sega Dreamcast (various controllers)


Please, feel free to visit the klutzoplex! Click the link below. => www.klutzoplex.f2s.com
 

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Go for it, Klutzo. You can get a thirty thousand dollar 3-DLP right now from AVS for only $3.5K.


Bob


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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~
 
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