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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I am about set on swapping out my HW55ES for n RS4910.....but a discussion in my other thread has me wondering if maybe it isn't time to seriously look at a DLP projector for my dedicated theater room. This is more of an exploratory thread but I figured since I know a lot about Sony vs. JVC it would only be smart of me to finally acquire some knowledge of DLP projectors.

My room:
22x14 (throw distance is around 18 feet)
Completely light controlled (dark walls/ceiling, extra dark front wall around the screen)
133" 16x9 AT screen (1.0 gain)

My use:
- 85% movies
- 5% 3D movies
- 5% video games
- 5% sports

I value the most accurate/reference Blu-ray image quality possible. 4k is not a priority right now, so 1080p is the main focus. And fantastic black levels are a must (hence my switching from Sony to JVC).

Budget (if seriously considering this):
- under $10k

So, with those details in mind....anyone have input, suggestions, past lessons learned, make/models to look at, etc?

Thanks!
 

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Hey guys,

I am about set on swapping out my HW55ES for n RS4910.....but a discussion in my other thread has me wondering if maybe it isn't time to seriously look at a DLP projector for my dedicated theater room. This is more of an exploratory thread but I figured since I know a lot about Sony vs. JVC it would only be smart of me to finally acquire some knowledge of DLP projectors.

My room:
22x14 (throw distance is around 18 feet)
Completely light controlled (dark walls/ceiling, extra dark front wall around the screen)
133" 16x9 AT screen (1.0 gain)

My use:
- 85% movies
- 5% 3D movies
- 5% video games
- 5% sports

I value the most accurate/reference Blu-ray image quality possible. 4k is not a priority right now, so 1080p is the main focus. And fantastic black levels are a must (hence my switching from Sony to JVC).

Budget (if seriously considering this):
- under $10k

So, with those details in mind....anyone have input, suggestions, past lessons learned, make/models to look at, etc?

Thanks!
You aren't going to get great black levels and high on/off contrast from any DLP projector. Even the $60000+ Sim2 Lumis projectors cannot beat your current HW55ES with on/off contrast and black levels. The only place you have to go is with a JVC or Epson Laser projector. The JVC is better at contrast than the Epsons.

For your type of content consumption, specifically with movies being 85% of your content, I'd say a JVC is probably your best bet if you want excellent blu-ray rendition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You aren't going to get great black levels and high on/off contrast from any DLP projector. Even the $60000+ Sim2 Lumis projectors cannot beat your current HW55ES with on/off contrast and black levels. The only place you have to go is with a JVC or Epson Laser projector. The JVC is better at contrast than the Epsons.

For your type of content consumption, specifically with movies being 85% of your content, I'd say a JVC is probably your best bet if you want excellent blu-ray rendition.
Really?

Forgive me if this is a completely stupid question but....what makes higher end DLP projectors so "great" then?
 

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Lens quality, image processing, high ANSI contrast, motion performance, 3D performance, and most importantly the ability to maintain contrast performance at extremely high lumen output. That's not to say these 3-chip DLPs don't have exquisite image quality, because they do. They just cannot beat the better LCoS projectors when it comes to dark content handling. If you value dark content handling the most, DLP is not the way to go. Some of them can beat or come very close to some LCoS projectors. The Sony VPL-VW350ES lacks a dynamic iris and it's native contrast performance isn't very good (this also occurs on the Sony HW40ES) so the better DLP projectors with dynamic irises can beat these projectors in all areas (brightness, sharpness, motion, ANSI contrast, On/Off contrast, ext) but the better LCoS projectors, especially Sony's with dynamic irises, JVCs, and the new Epsons can all beat or match any home theater DLP projector when it comes to contrast and black levels.

Other than DLP's current on/off contrast weakness by comparison to LCoS projectors it is, in principal, the best digital projection technology out there currently. It's better than LCoS in every other area regarding image quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lens quality, image processing, high ANSI contrast, motion performance, 3D performance, and most importantly the ability to maintain contrast performance at extremely high lumen output. That's not to say these 3-chip DLPs don't have exquisite image quality, because they do. They just cannot beat the better LCoS projectors when it comes to dark content handling. If you value dark content handling the most, DLP is not the way to go. Some of them can beat or come very close to some LCoS projectors. The Sony VPL-VW350ES lacks a dynamic iris and it's native contrast performance isn't very good (this also occurs on the Sony HW40ES) so the better DLP projectors with dynamic irises can beat these projectors in all areas (brightness, sharpness, motion, ANSI contrast, On/Off contrast, ext) but the better LCoS projectors, especially Sony's with dynamic irises, JVCs, and the new Epsons can all beat or match any home theater DLP projector when it comes to contrast and black levels.

Other than DLP's current on/off contrast weakness by comparison to LCoS projectors it is, in principal, the best digital projection technology out there currently. It's better than LCoS in every other area regarding image quality.
Playing devils advocate....what would be the best DLP projector under $10k (used counts if it's a model one can usually find used regularly)?
And how would this said model compare to my current 55ES and an RS4910?
 

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Lens quality, image processing, high ANSI contrast, motion performance, 3D performance, and most importantly the ability to maintain contrast performance at extremely high lumen output. That's not to say these 3-chip DLPs don't have exquisite image quality, because they do. They just cannot beat the better LCoS projectors when it comes to dark content handling. If you value dark content handling the most, DLP is not the way to go. Some of them can beat or come very close to some LCoS projectors. The Sony VPL-VW350ES lacks a dynamic iris and it's native contrast performance isn't very good (this also occurs on the Sony HW40ES) so the better DLP projectors with dynamic irises can beat these projectors in all areas (brightness, sharpness, motion, ANSI contrast, On/Off contrast, ext) but the better LCoS projectors, especially Sony's with dynamic irises, JVCs, and the new Epsons can all beat or match any home theater DLP projector when it comes to contrast and black levels.

Other than DLP's current on/off contrast weakness by comparison to LCoS projectors it is, in principal, the best digital projection technology out there currently. It's better than LCoS in every other area regarding image quality.
Very true. I prefer older movies generally (1960s and earlier). Movies back then were more fully lit, often with contrasty lighting. I have a DLP projector and love it for the stuff I watch. Choosing the right projector depends a lot on your source material.
 

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Playing devils advocate....what would be the best DLP projector under $10k (used counts if it's a model one can usually find used regularly)?
And how would this said model compare to my current 55ES and an RS4910?
Well first things first, the 55ES is a quite nice projector, I'd just sit on it for 6 months or so til we see what's released this fall, there should be a much clearer picture of what will be available UHD wise and what it will require/cost. Remember JVC basically sat the 2014-2015 season out.

As for DLPs, the Runco LS5 is probably the best sub-$10k DLP available new, Seegs probably has the best idea about used.
 

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Playing devils advocate....what would be the best DLP projector under $10k (used counts if it's a model one can usually find used regularly)?
And how would this said model compare to my current 55ES and an RS4910?
Having come from the Planar 8150 DLP, which was considered one of the better DLP's for the money to the JVC DLA-57....I would pick up the JVC and not look back. For me, the black levels with the on par sharpness makes the JVC a easy decision.

I bought the Planar based on Kris Deering's review. When I saw he went JVC route...I resisted, which only meant I wasted months of not enjoying inky blacks, while maintaining the sharpness level of a DLP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well first things first, the 55ES is a quite nice projector, I'd just sit on it for 6 months or so til we see what's released this fall, there should be a much clearer picture of what will be available UHD wise and what it will require/cost. Remember JVC basically sat the 2014-2015 season out.
I've been considering this extensively but since the swap is minimal money investment (maybe $200-300 for a new lamp since the unit I am getting has 300 hours on it), I kind of want to try the JVC to see how well I like it so if new models do come out this Fall I have an idea of what to expect/compare off of.
 

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Lens quality, image processing, high ANSI contrast, motion performance, 3D performance, and most importantly the ability to maintain contrast performance at extremely high lumen output. That's not to say these 3-chip DLPs don't have exquisite image quality, because they do. They just cannot beat the better LCoS projectors when it comes to dark content handling. If you value dark content handling the most, DLP is not the way to go. Some of them can beat or come very close to some LCoS projectors. The Sony VPL-VW350ES lacks a dynamic iris and it's native contrast performance isn't very good (this also occurs on the Sony HW40ES) so the better DLP projectors with dynamic irises can beat these projectors in all areas (brightness, sharpness, motion, ANSI contrast, On/Off contrast, ext) but the better LCoS projectors, especially Sony's with dynamic irises, JVCs, and the new Epsons can all beat or match any home theater DLP projector when it comes to contrast and black levels.

Other than DLP's current on/off contrast weakness by comparison to LCoS projectors it is, in principal, the best digital projection technology out there currently. It's better than LCoS in every other area regarding image quality.

In real world movie watching ( not test patterns or marketing BS ), my Lumis Host is pretty close to my VW600, contrast wise. In fact, I've had guests that thought the Lumis had better perceived black levels. Just FYI. I find them both perfectly acceptable contrast wise. I'm back to watching the Lumis this week in fact. I like good contrast, but for me, whatever projector I own has to put out 900+ lumens in low lamp. I like bright!


BigCoolJesus - try and find yourself a used Lumis ( one with the dynamic iris ). :)
 

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In real world movie watching ( not test patterns or marketing BS ), my Lumis Host is pretty close to my VW600, contrast wise. In fact, I've had guests that thought the Lumis had better perceived black levels. Just FYI. I find them both perfectly acceptable contrast wise. I'm back to watching the Lumis this week in fact. I like good contrast, but for me, whatever projector I own has to put out 900+ lumens in low lamp. I like bright!


BigCoolJesus - try and find yourself a used Lumis ( one with the dynamic iris ). :)
Looking forward for more observations. Have you measured the native on/off on the Lumis?
 

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In real world movie watching ( not test patterns or marketing BS ), my Lumis Host is pretty close to my VW600, contrast wise. In fact, I've had guests that thought the Lumis had better perceived black levels. Just FYI. I find them both perfectly acceptable contrast wise. I'm back to watching the Lumis this week in fact. I like good contrast, but for me, whatever projector I own has to put out 900+ lumens in low lamp. I like bright!


BigCoolJesus - try and find yourself a used Lumis ( one with the dynamic iris ). :)
We're they brightness matched?
 

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Looking forward for more observations. Have you measured the native on/off on the Lumis?

Yes, but off the top of my head I can't remember the number - 16,000: 1? I've seriously blacked out my room since it was measured. And having had both an RS4910 and an RS57 in my theater, I still prefer the picture my Lumis throws ( and the VW600 is right up there - split decision ). One reason is I like bright projectors - JVC's are great, but not bright enough for my tastes.


One thing about contrast - your room affects what you get on the screen. You crank the iris all the way down on an RS6710, but have a room with white walls, white ceiling, tan carpeting, white leather sofa, and your wife insists on having lights on in the room for her knitting - you aren't going to see that contrast on the screen. And quit placing equipment so the LED's in your rack shine on the screen ! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, but off the top of my head I can't remember the number - 16,000: 1? I've seriously blacked out my room since it was measured. And having had both an RS4910 and an RS57 in my theater, I still prefer the picture my Lumis throws ( and the VW600 is right up there - split decision ). One reason is I like bright projectors - JVC's are great, but not bright enough for my tastes.


One thing about contrast - your room affects what you get on the screen. You crank the iris all the way down on an RS6710, but have a room with white walls, white ceiling, tan carpeting, white leather sofa, and your wife insists on having lights on in the room for her knitting - you aren't going to see that contrast on the screen. And quit placing equipment so the LED's in your rack shine on the screen ! :eek:
Is there a particular Lumis model you would suggest I search around for to get some ideas?
 

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Lens quality, image processing, high ANSI contrast, motion performance, 3D performance, and most importantly the ability to maintain contrast performance at extremely high lumen output. That's not to say these 3-chip DLPs don't have exquisite image quality, because they do. They just cannot beat the better LCoS projectors when it comes to dark content handling. If you value dark content handling the most, DLP is not the way to go. Some of them can beat or come very close to some LCoS projectors. The Sony VPL-VW350ES lacks a dynamic iris and it's native contrast performance isn't very good (this also occurs on the Sony HW40ES) so the better DLP projectors with dynamic irises can beat these projectors in all areas (brightness, sharpness, motion, ANSI contrast, On/Off contrast, ext) but the better LCoS projectors, especially Sony's with dynamic irises, JVCs, and the new Epsons can all beat or match any home theater DLP projector when it comes to contrast and black levels.

Other than DLP's current on/off contrast weakness by comparison to LCoS projectors it is, in principal, the best digital projection technology out there currently. It's better than LCoS in every other area regarding image quality.

Thanks to the original poster for this topic-- I have somewhat similar questions regarding DLP. I have a JVC RS45 with the original lamp but when it comes to the ins and outs of projection I admit to being a relative newbie. The projector now has 600 hours, and at present I am finding it rather dim in dark scenes. Because it was purchased in 2012, JVC will not replace the lamp. So, this has got me thinking about whether to get an altogether new projector. My room is completely light controlled, the throw distance is 15' 6" onto a 120" wide 2.40:1 screen. I have a Prismasonic anamorphic lens which I lower when viewing widescreen material and raise for 16:9 material. I really enjoyed my initial foray into front projection until the last few months when dark scenes in both movies and television shows became noticeably and often uncomfortably too dark. So, stupid as this may sound, I guess my question is: what do I really value and want in a projector? I would say sports viewing and movie/tv viewing is about 50/50 in terms of percentages. My budget for a new projector could stretch to around 20K, and neither 3D nor 4K is a priority for me at the moment.
 

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Thanks to the original poster for this topic-- I have somewhat similar questions regarding DLP. I have a JVC RS45 with the original lamp but when it comes to the ins and outs of projection I admit to being a relative newbie. The projector now has 600 hours, and at present I am finding it rather dim in dark scenes. Because it was purchased in 2012, JVC will not replace the lamp. So, this has got me thinking about whether to get an altogether new projector. My room is completely light controlled, the throw distance is 15' 6" onto a 120" wide 2.40:1 screen. I have a Prismasonic anamorphic lens which I lower when viewing widescreen material and raise for 16:9 material. I really enjoyed my initial foray into front projection until the last few months when dark scenes in both movies and television shows became noticeably and often uncomfortably too dark. So, stupid as this may sound, I guess my question is: what do I really value and want in a projector? I would say sports viewing and movie/tv viewing is about 50/50 in terms of percentages. My budget for a new projector could stretch to around 20K, and neither 3D nor 4K is a priority for me at the moment.
What type of screen and gain do you have?
 
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