[R Harkness]

(I know, I know...some people hate threads like these, but what the heck..)


As I continue to haunt the local AV stores, from mid to high-end, I always ask "Which displays are attracting the attention in your store? " and "What is selling best for you?"


When I ask any of the stores that cater to Home Theater (i.e. that sell lots of RPTVs, LCDs, Plasmas etc.) I get the same answer from everyone: DLP Rear Projection sets. I get the same look "Man, those things are flying out the door, we can barely stock them." The reasoning is that, although the salesman find plasma picture quality is still better than DLP, customers are blown away by the DLP images, the fact that they have a shallow profile for an RPTV, and the price makes them affordable. "The Poor Man's Plasma" is the going description.


When I've asked at the Best Buy/Future Shop outlets, their sales still seem to be supported by their tube set inventory, but of the "Home Theater" displays they sell (RPTVs/Plasma/LCD), the DLPs seem to be the hot ticket item. (So I'm told). The DLP really lends itself for a sales pitch being the best money value (image vs price). At a Best Buy I watched two customers who were looking to replace their CRTs, and both of them ended up told me they were going with DLP for it's great picture/size/price ratio.


BTW, many of the high-end AV stores here in Toronto now have an inventory that is heavily weighted toward flat screens - plasmas and LCDs line every wall and counter top. When I ask: "What display is attracting the most attention from customers?" almost every salesman points to the new Sony XBR 30" LCD. I can see why because of it's awesome styling and it's so bloody bright and vivid it can make even nearby plasmas look dull in comparison (in typical store set-ups).


Just tossing this stuff out. Discuss.

 

[Moebius]

DLP RPs have a good market right now. They tend to look better than what people saw in older RPs, they have a good PQ to most folks, and they're at a very nice price to screensize ratio.


When you're looking in the mass market realm, they're going to be big. It's only when you get to the AVPhile crowd (folks like us) that the shortcomings of DLP (the infamous rainbow spings to mind) come in to play. We tend to notice the finer performance specs, and are willing to shell out the extra dough to get them.


Finally, I think a percentage of the masses are still somewhat "afraid" of plasma type. Between the misinformation (like gas refilling) and the delicate nature, and the idea of bolting it to a wall or setting it on what looks like a flimsy stand, plasmas can still be a bit intimidating. On the other hand, you have the big monstrous RP unit which looks like it can take a beating (even if that's not the case) and still be fine.

 

[HX_Guy]

DLP = LCD Projection?


If so, I find them an attractive buy too. There is a nice HDTV Panny 50" Projection LCD television with DVI input that can be had for $2700...from the front it looks like a plasma since it has a very thin bezel...the side...well...its 15.4" deep.

 

[wmwilson01]

Personally, I just can't ever get over the fact that, if I stand up or even lay down, the picture is virtually unwatchable on these things. Sure, DLP is a lot better with the horizontal viewing angles, but it's at least as bad in my experience with the vertical viewing angles. This is a large reason why I would never get a RP set either. Fact is, anyone that's not sitting directly in front of the set is not going to get even close to the best PQ offered by these units.


I'm often surprised that people don't think twice about why all of these RP sets are displayed on raised platforms so that the image is exactly at eye level. I also wonder if people buy these things and then get home and realize that, as soon as they change positions, the PQ changes dramatically. Personally, I'd feel like I wasted the $3k on a 50" DLP set the first time I stood up to get the telephone and realized that I'd have to squat down if I wanted to keep up with the story.... Aside from that, I still hate the big, ugly boxes, even if they have shaved 10" off the back of it.

 

[rogo]

Something that costs $4000 at 50" is going to outsell something that costs $8000-10000.


That said, my vexation with this thread being posted, well, I cannot put into words.

 

[GlenH]

Quote:

Originally posted by HX_Guy DLP = LCD Projection? If so, I find them an attractive buy too. There is a nice HDTV Panny 50" Projection LCD television with DVI input that can be had for $2700...from the front it looks like a plasma since it has a very thin bezel...the side...well...its 15.4" deep.

DLP and LCD are completely different technologies. However, there is a lot of cross shopping between the 2 technologies. Many people who are considering the various DLP projection TVs also consider the LCD projection TVs such as the Panasonic PT-50LC13 and the Sony GWII.


Glen

 

[HDTV888]

Quote:

Originally posted by wmwilson01 Personally, I just can't ever get over the fact that, if I stand up or even lay down, the picture is virtually unwatchable on these things. Sure, DLP is a lot better with the horizontal viewing angles, but it's at least as bad in my experience with the vertical viewing angles. This is a large reason why I would never get a RP set either. Fact is, anyone that's not sitting directly in front of the set is not going to get even close to the best PQ offered by these units. I'm often surprised that people don't think twice about why all of these RP sets are displayed on raised platforms so that the image is exactly at eye level. I also wonder if people buy these things and then get home and realize that, as soon as they change positions, the PQ changes dramatically. Personally, I'd feel like I wasted the $3k on a 50" DLP set the first time I stood up to get the telephone and realized that I'd have to squat down if I wanted to keep up with the story.... Aside from that, I still hate the big, ugly boxes, even if they have shaved 10" off the back of it.

Complete agreement. Plus the fact than almost all plasma's can display PAL, SECAM, NTSC signals from anywhere (hardly a factor for 99% of users).

But prices are just not dropping fast enough!

 

[Descolada]

Quote:

Originally posted by Moebius When you're looking in the mass market realm, they're going to be big. It's only when you get to the AVPhile crowd (folks like us) that the shortcomings of DLP (the infamous rainbow spings to mind) come in to play. We tend to notice the finer performance specs, and are willing to shell out the extra dough to get them.

To take this a step further... the mass market crowd as a rule is not as educated as the AVPhile crowd, and often don't do the kind of research that would allow them to make a more informed decision. I agree also with your points regarding the intimidation factor, and I think that additionally the common conception of plasma is that it's out of the league of the typical buyer - but a little research and a little soul-searching does wonders to overcome these factors... it worked for me!


Knowledge is power...

 

[PooperScooper]

I'm there with Moebius and Descolada. The people who access AVS

for information are not the general public. The folks in this forum who

own product are a much smaller subset. I can easily see how DLP

appeals to the "masses". And DLP is still a very small percentage of

the consumer TV sales. It's easy to forget that we (AVSers) are

small minority in the consumer A/V market. VHS rentals are now just

a little less than 50% of rentals, correct?


larry

 

[R Harkness]

"That said, my vexation with this thread being posted, well, I cannot put into words."


My point is that, looked sheerly at the level of techno lust until recently, plasma was the "WOW" technology. The one that pulled customers away from CRTs in the stores to think: "Man that's cool, what a picture, I'll have to get one of those some day."


There really wasn't any competition. But now when I'm in the stores I see DLP getting a similar reaction from consumers: "Wow" at the image, "Wow" at the styling and, thanks to plasma's expensive reputation, the DLPs are getting a comparative "Wow, I might be able to afford this baby." People can now get the "Wow" and super-cool tech factor at a lower price point than plasma...and they are going for it.


What of plasma? When the stores had only CRT tube sets, RPTVs or Plasma, people would look at Plasmas and say, "Well, inevitably we'll all be owning one of these displays...hope the price comes down someday." Whereas now, instead of waiting for plasma prices to meet their budgets, many people are getting the same "cool" factor from DLP sets and spending money now to buy them. I'm curious how this will affect plasma's status as the object of desire, it's standing in the market place, and the possibilities of it's adoption as a standard for home theater flat screen displays.


I'm not an industry insider, but it seems like a good question to me.

 

[MattyP]

In my mind (and more importantly my wife's), plasma is the "WOW" technology because you can hang it on the wall. DLPs fall short there.

 

[Andrzej]

Quote:

Originally posted by R Harkness What of plasma? When the stores had only CRT tube sets, RPTVs or Plasma, people would look at Plasmas and say, "Well, inevitably we'll all be owning one of these displays...hope the price comes down someday." Whereas now, instead of waiting for plasma prices to meet their budgets, many people are getting the same "cool" factor from DLP sets and spending money now to buy them. I'm curious how this will affect plasma's status as the object of desire, it's standing in the market place, and the possibilities of it's adoption as a standard for home theater flat screen displays. I'm not an industry insider, but it seems like a good question to me.

I agree with Rich. It is a good question. Somehow we - the owners of plasma panels - convinced ourselves that plasma technology is the way to go and that it will, sooner or later, dominate the market of home TVs. It may not be the case. I believe that the future of TV/Home Theater is all-digital and HD but not necessarily implemented via plasma technology. It doesn't mean that I regret my purchase. Not at all. At this point in time this is still the best option for me. But in 5 years? I dunno. It is quite possible that then my next TV set may not be plasma but something better.


Andrzej

 

[Ken Ross]

I can't see much of a "WOW" factor with DLP RP. To me the "wow" factor must be in the PQ and with DLP RP it's not. Granted it's not a huge box like a traditional RPTV, but it's still a smaller big box.

 

[Seanster]

DLP RPTV = Digital Light Projection (or Processing) rear-projection tv. Just found out what DLP is from Panasonic's site, I didn't know either

 

[Mit07]

R Harkness - well I'm one of the few who actually gets the wow factor from CRT RPTVs - if properly calibrated. (compared to plasma, DLP, LCD or other RPTVs). (Oh - and front projectors are definitely WOW for me!)


More to your point - a retail environment is a very harsh place. Most sets come right out of the box and are displayed in bright retail floor spaces with florescent lights. Most are not calibrated, converged or focused. Of course plasmas, DLPs and LCDs do not need to be converged or focused so they almost always look better than CRT RPTVs. And these sets are inherently brighter so they generally look better in the bright rooms with lots of ambient light.


Also consider that most plasmas are really cool looking and mounted at eye level - versus the floor level of CRT RPTVs so they don't suffer from the vertical image problem. Many of the newer DLPs are table top models and are mounted on stands to also get closer to eye level.


It is difficult to imagine a CRT RPTV ever getting a wow effect considering these limitations.


But the DLPs are bright, perfectly converged, don't suffer from screen burn, good looking - and more people can afford them. Yes - I think they are stealing a lot of thunder and wow from plasmas.

 

[baja]

Or be like me and buy both a plasma and a DLP.....and have the best of both worlds I love thunder

 

[DNINE]

When you can buy a 50 or 60 inch Plasma HD with Stand for around 3k

people won't look at anything else, until then it will be whatever

comes in second even if it's a distant second.

 

[Seanster]

Are CRTs the oldest (currently used) display type (with curved glass)?

 

[jcruse]

I know the whole DLP vs. Plasma issue has been discussed many times before, but I don't think the marketshare/mindshare gains of DLP are due to cost alone.


I'm currently debating whether to get a plasma or DLP myself. I know a lot of people on this forum say it's not a big deal, but to me burn-in is a HUGE downside for plasmas, since I will be using the display for computer monitor, Xbox (sessions can easily last 4-5 hours with static images), widescreen DVD's, and I absolutely hate watching any of the stretch or zoom modes for 4:3 SD or 2.35:1 movies. Why spend thousands of $$$ to watch a distorted and/or cropped image?????? Therefore I WILL be watching different aspect ratios with black borders. On the flip-side, rainbows (which I've never actually seen on store display models), physical size, and decreased vertical viewing angles are issues for DLP's.


As you can tell, I'm leaning towards DLP, but everytime I see a Panasonic 50" HD plasma, I stop and drool at the spectacular image (am I the only one that thinks the Panny's consistently look better than the Fujitsu's?)


Just some thoughts from someone leaning to the other side of the fence...

 

[mark_1080p]

The Samsung DLP RPTV does have a small sweet spot, but people can easily see it in the store and decide if its ok for them. It looks sharp compared to the walls of misconverged CRT's. I've never seen a RP CRT that has not taken a hit in resolution due to convergence issues. I think the walls of refrigerator-sized particle board CRT RPTV's will come crumbling down, not too soon enough.


The decent larger plasmas are still pricey, out of reach for most. And people want more than 42" these days. The 42" plasmas at the BB look like crap, mainly due to lighting conditions. Seems to me that 50" plasma has a price problem at this point.