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DLP vs. LCD Projectors as of Jan 08

2942 Views 24 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  rboster
Why do DLP Projectors still cost more then LCD projectors?


I've read many threads and as of Jan 08 is there really a big difference between LCD and DLP?


Is this the same concept as LCD vs. Plasma tv?
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DLP is actually cheaper in 720p. You won't find any LCD in the $800 range to compare with the Mitsubishi HC1500. And you won't find anything to compete with the Infocus 7210 at $1000. The only advantage of LCD below $1400 is lens shift and zoom.


At $1400 the Mitsubishi HC4900 is the only projector that can display 1080p, but the 7210 is an overall better projector.


LCD dominates the $1500-$3000 range right now though.
thanks for the feedback


but at the $5k+ range i take it that dlp has an advantage in that because most go DLP?


More film like quality or just better overall picture quality over LCD at that price point?
In the 5k range many people buy D-Ila(JVC) or SXRD(Sony).
Quite simply, DLP and LCoS/SXRD are superior technolgies. LCD has it's place, but that place is primarily in filling in a lower price point. That's the way I see it at least.


DLP has better sharpness (single chip, no alignement issues), better CR (ANSI and On/Off), often more accurate color. LCoS (in the JVC flavor) has an advantage in CR in lower APLs thought, while DLP does in higher ones. Also IIRC DLP and LCoS/SXRD have higher fill factors than LCD (meaning less space between pixels).


Actually if you really look at it, in the $5k ballpark, SXRD and LCoS, which are both liquid crystal technologies (though reflective instead of transmissive like LCD) are the ones that are really receiving all the excitement. Projectors like the JVC RS1 and Sony VW40/50/60 are probably some of the most popular.


I still think I'd rather have a DLP though, I'm not even considering anything else for my next upgrade, I just don't think I can give up the high simultaneous CR of DLP, or it's "crispness" or color accuracy.
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but how come it seems that if you look at the specs the $5 DLP projectors in terms of lumens and contrast are a lot of times less then $2500 LCD Projectors?


what specs do the DLP $5k projectors excel in on paper
This recent thread inessence covers the same questions/ground in your thread topic:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=977570
It should be mentioned that all DLPs anywhere near the price point discussed use a "single" DLP chip. A segmented color wheel is used (in most cases) to sequentially reproduced all three colors required. You should research the history of the color wheel and the many distortions and fatigue that it can add to your viewing experience.

All the LCD technologies use 3 chips. All three colors are reproduced at the same time.

Lot's to consider really.

If money was no object than a 3 chip DLP would be the way to go!
My sharp 20000 ( DLP ) has contrast and black levels which any LCD projector I have seen cannot quite match. I am not saying that it walk's all over the liquid crystal designs but there is is an extensive difference between my sharp 20000 and the panasonic 200 that I have in the same theater room.


The new top of the line epson and mitsubishi offerings bring the differences to a much smaller gap.


I currently also have an RS2 in my theater as a temporary companion to the other 2 models. The RS2 ( lcos ) produces blacks as good or even slightly better than my sharp 20000 but produces more light output while doing so.


Both projectors are above 5k so comparisons to sub 2000$ LCD models are not really fair but I figure if information is what you want then start the questions and let the movie start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gooomz /forum/post/12869588


but how come it seems that if you look at the specs the $5 DLP projectors in terms of lumens and contrast are a lot of times less then $2500 LCD Projectors?


what specs do the DLP $5k projectors excel in on paper

Lumens is primarilly because in the market we're in, more lumens aren't "necessary". They could make projectors with more light output rather easily if they wanted to but they don't because most HTs don't need it and further because it would probably decrease CR specs.


The reason contrast ratio is similar is because in geneneral the two technologies reach those numbers in entirely different ways. DLPs reach their CR numbers "natively", some models have fixed iris's, but in general a DLP can hit in the area of 5000:1 without resorting to Dynamic Iris, of course these inevitably get marketed as "10,000:1" CRs.


LCDs on the other hand have largely begun incorporating Dynamic Iris into their designs, and because of that they are able to advertise (and reach) much higher CR numbers than the LCD technology on it's own is capable of.


Now, we're starting to see the use of Dynamic Iris on DLPs and the result is clear, CR numbers are increasing dramatically. BenQ has doubled it's CR specs on the W20000 (20,000:1 with Dynamic Black) vs it's predecessor the W10000 (10,000:1 without Dynamic Black)


It's not unlike the VW50 vs RS1, both have the same CR spec, but they have dramatically different CR performance because the RS1 hit's it's CR natively while the VW50 relies on Dynamic Iris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle /forum/post/12869716


It should be mentioned that all DLPs anywhere near the price point discussed use a "single" DLP chip. A segmented color wheel is used (in most cases) to sequentially reproduced all three colors required. You should research the history of the color wheel and the many distortions and fatigue that it can add to your viewing experience.

And no doubt single-chip DLP has it's own artifacts, but those affected physically by those artifacts are in the great minority, not that you'd know that though since they are one of the most vocal minorities out there.

Quote:
All the LCD technologies use 3 chips. All three colors are reproduced at the same time.

Which has it's own artifacts, namely convergence issues.

Quote:
Lot's to consider really.

If money was no object than a 3 chip DLP would be the way to go!

I agree, while generalities can be drawn, they aren't really that useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank456 /forum/post/12869724


My sharp 20000 ( DLP ) has contrast and black levels which any LCD projector I have seen cannot quite match. I am not saying that it walk's all over the liquid crystal designs but there is is an extensive difference between my sharp 20000 and the panasonic 200 that I have in the same theater room.


The new top of the line epson and mitsubishi offerings bring the differences to a much smaller gap.

True, but the new DLPs probaby restore that gap too. Contrast ratio, convergence and color accuracy are simply not strengths of LCD technology.

Quote:
I currently also have an RS2 in my theater as a temporary companion to the other 2 models. The RS2 ( lcos ) produces blacks as good or even slightly better than my sharp 20000 but produces more light output while doing so.

And you know something, perhaps this illustrates the OP's question exactly. The Sharp 20k is no match for the RS2 on paper, the 20k can "only" do about 6000-7000:1 On/Off CR, while the RS2 can do 15,000-30,000:1, yet that's only "slightly better" than the 20k.
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Well said stranger89



Having the companion RS2 in my theater ( for a few more months anyways
) gave me the opportunity to really see the differences ( or lack of ) between projectors which are claiming CR values far greater than my current DLP model.


The difference is there but did not seem to follow the same proportional values as much as what was on paper.


I am anxious to hear about the benq W20000 from the first person to report back on this model. Sounds exciting.


P.S. Sorry for getting of track temporarily.
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is there going to be a huge difference between say the panny ae-2000 and the RS1 in terms of general image quality or are the differences small?
I have watched the HD DVD version of 'transformers' on the RS2 and compared it to the panasonic 2000 when it was being screened in a local high end retail outlet. 2 rooms are never 100% identical but these were at least bat caves and had the same ' draper' m1300 screens.


The difference between the 2 images IMO were small to insignificant.
wow. i thought it would be a big difference considering $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by gooomz /forum/post/12871013


wow. i thought it would be a big difference considering $$$

The times when there is a big difference would be in low contrast dark scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gooomz /forum/post/12869588


what specs do the DLP $5k projectors excel in on paper

Maybe you're a "retro" kinda guy gooomz; a DLP's color wheel is so "50s"!



Seriously, if you're still considering a single chip DLP, make sure you spend some extended time looking at one. I see rainbows everywhere--obviously there's a whole population of folks who do not, so YMMV. They do seem to have a sheen that can be lacking in other projection types.
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Projectorreviews did an excellent summary on LCD vs DLP vs Lcos.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...B/proscons.php


The big unknown is the BenQ W20000, whether with all the new technologies would give it the edge over its competition for the under $10k category.
gooomz: Asking the general forum population about opinionsfor which technology is better for all or any reasons will just get you biased opinions depending on who returns an answer to your questions.


Get some demos on a few different projectors and pick what you think looks best to you. AVS is a good place to start for a fair playing field as this is there business. Projector reviews .com is better than projector central .com for your outside source reviews and opinions.
The W20000 / W5000 are the first DLPs I know of which have DI comparable to the LCDs / LCoS projectors. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference this makes in practice. The RPTVs have been using LED engines for a while now, and some have high lumen engines, so this technology could be used in a reasonably bright FP, but no announcements yet. For whatever reason, TI hasn't been too innovative on the FP side, hopefully they will soon. At this point LCOS seems more exciting in the sub $5000 range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk /forum/post/12878044


The W20000 / W5000 are the first DLPs I know of which have DI comparable to the LCDs / LCoS projectors. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference this makes in practice. The RPTVs have been using LED engines for a while now, and some have high lumen engines, so this technology could be used in a reasonably bright FP, but no announcements yet. For whatever reason, TI hasn't been too innovative on the FP side, hopefully they will soon. At this point LCOS seems more exciting in the sub $5000 range.

W20000/W5000 are packed with new techologies Brilliant Color, Vidi Lamp, Dynamic Black not to mention the 2nd Iris and HQV processing. It certainly has potential. The question is whether the BenQ engineering can bring all these together. At this point I am certainly leaning more towards Sony VW60 as my next projector.
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