[Reeltrooper]

I know this is the sub thread and all but I am on a budget and have a question for the more knowledgeable ones among you.


I have a klipsch RP3 set of fronts and a matching center and surrounds but no sub. The fronts are powered and are very sensitive. Do I really need a sub with this setup or will the towers suffice? The other wrinkle is that an electrician friend is going to wire my theater for sound and I don't know if I should ask him to run yet another wire for the bloody sub or not. I'm already asking him to run 2 wires per channel so I can bi-amp.


Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[croseiv]

Depends on how low they go, and if you wish to extend the low end. If you want lower extension, then you need a sub.

 

[soundemon]

Movie effects greatly benifit from having a sub, even if your speakers go very low. I'd say absolutely a sub is nesesary for a good HT setup.

 

[OvalNut]

Do I need a sub?

.... ohh, hahaha. Man, that's a good one! ....

Tim

 

[Bob7145]

at least 2!

 

[Reeltrooper]

Thanks oval nut, you're a real asset to this forum....

 

[OvalNut]

Just to be clear, I meant that as a joke of sorts, given some of the extreme subwoofage around here, not to be a jerk. If it came off that way, I'm sorry.



Tim

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by OvalNut /forum/post/14271672

Do I need a sub?

.... ohh, hahaha. Man, that's a good one! ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeltrooper /forum/post/14274090


Thanks oval nut, you're a real asset to this forum....

Well, to ask that here, in a HT subwoofer forum, IS pretty funny to the regulars.

 

[sourbeef]



Quote:
Originally Posted by soundemon /forum/post/14271650


Movie effects greatly benifit from having a sub, even if your speakers go very low. I'd say absolutely a sub is nesesary for a good HT setup.

+1

 

[JBLsound4645]

No, you don't need a sub bass there are already too many of us, making to much noise with these things. Use the money to save the rainforest instead.

 

[Patdeisa]

On your second point, run the sub cables while you're at it- it's cheaper in the long run to do it. In fact, run multiple sub wires for optional placements. I ran 2 sub cables in wall and now I wish I ran 4.

 

[Cycloid]

Reeltrooper,


The .1 in 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 is the LFE channel. If you don't have a sub you are missing a lot of the home theater experience (assuming you're into home theater).


I am building a 12,000 cu ft home theater/living room combination in which I just introduced a BIC H100. The BIC H100 is actually for my den. I just wanted to try it out, because I had never heard a subwoofer before (other than cars with rap music? which I abhor).

It was a difference of night and day!!


I heard "Gladiator" and "The Haunting" in DTS both with and without the subwoofer. Actually, I watched it with the subwoofer and a small part without the subwoofer. I couldn't bear to watch it without the subwoofer. The difference was that dramatic.

I'm planning on getting, very quickly, a PB13-Ultra for that room. Would that I had the $ for two of them.

If you're budget limited, I heartily recommend the BIC H100. Otherwise, check out offerings from SVS, HSU, and Epik, among others.


Joe C.

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycloid /forum/post/14276271


Reeltrooper,


The .1 in 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 is the LFE channel. If you don't have a sub you are missing a lot of the home theater experience (assuming you're into home theater).

Without a sub the LFE channel can be rerouted to the front speakers if the processor is set up as having NO SUB. That said, with most speakers and in most cases, LFE reproduction will be seriously lacking when reproduced by most people's front speakers relative to having a dedicated subwoofer.


The RP3s are equipped with a 10" powered "subwoofer" and have a reported low-end -3dB point of 27Hz. Although this is not as low as many people's subwoofers are capable of going, that is not insignificant low-end extension. I guarantee you they will thump all the way down to that point and will probably best many peoples' system's overall output in the 30-80Hz range.

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeltrooper /forum/post/14271480


I know this is the sub thread and all but I am on a budget and have a question for the more knowledgeable ones among you.


I have a klipsch RP3 set of fronts and a matching center and surrounds but no sub. The fronts are powered and are very sensitive. Do I really need a sub with this setup or will the towers suffice? The other wrinkle is that an electrician friend is going to wire my theater for sound and I don't know if I should ask him to run yet another wire for the bloody sub or not. I'm already asking him to run 2 wires per channel so I can bi-amp.

As I stated in the above post, your particular speakers, having powered "subwoofers" (I put this in quotes because they are not really subwoofers, in the true sense), are capable of significant output all the way down to 27Hz. I know that these speakers have quite a bit of low-end grunt and for many people the amount of output they are capable of at this depth of low-end extension (27Hz) would suffice. With those speakers you are actually sort of on the cusp of needing a subwoofer and not needing one. It's a bit of a special case. A subwoofer will allow you to "go lower", overall. If you added a subwoofer with those speakers you may very likely run the speakers as LARGE which would send only the LFE channel (and any rerouted bass from any channels that are set to SMALL) to the subwoofer.


As I also pointed out, above, the LFE channel will be rerouted to the front channels by your receiver if the receiver is set up as having NO SUB. Those speakers will be able to reproduce a significant portion of the LFE channel with quite a bit of oomph, actually. If I were you, with those particular speakers, I would start off without a subwoofer. But since you are running wiring, I would definitely run a subwoofer cable just in case you decide that you DO want a dedicated subwoofer.


And a subwoofer cable is coax cabling, btw, not speaker wire.

 

[Cycloid]

You are absolutely correct sivadselim. I had no idea that the Klipsch RP-3's incorporated a powered subwoofer.

In fact, if I'm reading the specs correctly, the crossover to the powered subwoofer is 90Hz. If you are using this system for only home theater (as I'm using my system), you might try disconnecting the powered subwoofers from the rest of the speakers and connecting them to the LFE output on your AVR using shielded coax with an RCA phono plug to attach to the speaker. I have no idea whether this would make a difference or not, but Klipsch seems to recommend it. I have never heard an RP-3, so I don't know. Perhaps sivadselim or anyone else could chime in with their thoughts.

The thing about powered subwoofers incorporated into the mains is that the location may not be ideal. (This from someone who in 1100 sq ft, has one place, and one place only, to put a subwoofer--WAF).

Joe C.

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycloid /forum/post/14277767


In fact, if I'm reading the specs correctly, the crossover to the powered subwoofer is 90Hz. If you are using this system for only home theater (as I'm using my system), you might try disconnecting the powered subwoofers from the rest of the speakers and connecting them to the LFE output on your AVR using shielded coax with an RCA phono plug to attach to the speaker. I have no idea whether this would make a difference or not, but Klipsch seems to recommend it. I have never heard an RP-3, so I don't know. Perhaps sivadselim or anyone else could chime in with their thoughts.

Well....................


If it were me, I would skip the LFE input scheme and simply wire the speakers as normal speakers (binding straps left in OR biwired) and set the receiver up as having NO SUB. This circumvents the issue of deciding on which crossover setting to use in the receiver if the top section of the speakers is run as SMALL. The top section could still be run as LARGE and the 90Hz crossover in the speakers would do its thing with the LFE channel (and any rerouted bass from any channels set to SMALL) being the only thing sent to the lower sections. But this would truncate the front channel bass content. If run as SMALL, one would have to use at least a 90Hz crossover setting and probably higher than this so as to avoid any interaction between the AVR's and speakers' crossover (which is really really a high-pass filter if run this way).


IMO, the simplest and least complicated method is usually the best. So, if you set the receiver up as having NO SUB, the receiver will properly reroute the LFE channel at the correct measure into the front channels and the speakers' 90Hz crossover will parse the LFE and front channel bass (and any rerouted bass) appropriately, as they were designed. This also allows any stereo bass from 90Hz down that may be present in the front channels to remain as stereo bass. That's what I would do, anyway. Keeps it simple and will work just fine.


If the OP's receiver has front channel pre-outs, he could use these to connect the sub section, and connect the top section separately as if they were normal speakers, but he would still set the receiver up as having NO SUB with this connection scheme. And this sort of connection scheme doesn't really provide anything that simply connecting the speakers normally with the binding straps left in (or biwired) provides.


Additionally, and importantly in the OP's case, connecting the speakers "normally" eliminates the need to run additional coax cabling; the simple speaker wire runs that the electrician friend is running will suffice.


But, as I said, if he can, the OP should still properly run a separate subwoofer cable just in case he feels the need to utilize a dedicated sub in the future.