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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have definitive technology 2006tl fronts, clr2300 center, and bp2x rears.. do I need an additional subwoofer (the inbuilt subs allready make my room shake)?


If so, has anyone heard the def tech´s supercube and compaired them to the likes of velodyne, M&K, REL, etc.(would be great to see some reviews)?
 

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I've never heard your speakers, but I have heard a variety of fairly large floorstanders that are at least very nearly full range. I thought my Odysseys were in the category of "don't need subwoofers." But I got a sub anyway - I thought it would help on movies - and WOW does it make a difference. Yes, even on 2-channel music, and yes, even given a pretty low crossover, and yes, even on music that I thought wouldn't benefit.


Oh and yes, it does help a lot on action movies. This is a ML Descent. I had never had anything like that kind of improvement before, even though I previously had small monitors (ProAc Tablette 50s) and a fairly decent sub (Velodyne HGS-10).


All I can say is try auditioning.
 

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keyser,

I auditioned DT's "Supercube I" and PF15TL+.

In my opinion this is the worst what Definitive Technology ever created.

I really enjoy their speakers in my setup, but for the subwoofer I chose SVS 16-46PC Plus.


Hope it helped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks.


More opinions on subwoofers and the def tech´s are welcome.


And also, with my current setup, do I need a subwoofer.. do I need more bass, can the bass not just become to much and overwhelming if I ad a extar sub?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by keyser
And also, with my current setup, do I need a subwoofer.. do I need more bass, can the bass not just become to much and overwhelming if I ad a extra sub?
I thought the same thing, especially with nearly-full-range speakers. But no, it doesn't become overwhelming - you have to set the crossovers right. But for me, it becomes much more tight and visceral. I have a powered sub, so it also has some residual benefit by unloading some work from your main amplifiers. It didn't help much in my configuration since I biamp with a fairly beefy solid state amp for the lower registers anyway, but in most cases this would be more significant.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kir
keyser,

I auditioned DT's "Supercube I" and PF15TL+.

In my opinion this is the worst what Definitive Technology ever created.

I really enjoy their speakers in my setup, but for the subwoofer I chose SVS 16-46PC Plus.


Hope it helped.
Funny, based on "The Perfect Vision" magazine rating of Best Budget Subwoofer of the year for the DT SuperCube 1, I had this speaker on my short list for auditioning.


Could you describe why you believe that this speaker is the worst DT ever created? What should I listen for when I audition this box? Did you audition the speaker in a store or did you have the opportunity to audition it in your home? What source material did you use in your audition?


Thanks for the input
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If I get a powered Sub, why will that ease the load on my amp?

I don´t have to cut any of the low frequencies from my other speakers, I´m just adding the sub??

And also.. what is setting the crossovers?, I mean, I have every speaker set to "large" and just add the sub, or do I gain anything by cutting the lows from the other speakers and sending them to the sub, I can´t see why that should be the case, execpt if I´m cutting the VERY lows that the other speakers just can´t produce... how do I actually go about connecting and configuring this. What settings do I set in the amp(crossovers) and on the sub??
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by keyser
If I get a powered Sub, why will that ease the load on my amp?

I don´t have to cut any of the low frequencies from my other speakers, I´m just adding the sub??

And also.. what is setting the crossovers?, I mean, I have every speaker set to "large" and just add the sub, or do I gain anything by cutting the lows from the other speakers and sending them to the sub, I can´t see why that should be the case, execpt if I´m cutting the VERY lows that the other speakers just can´t produce... how do I actually go about connecting and configuring this. What settings do I set in the amp(crossovers) and on the sub??
The crossover is the point below which your receiver or processor will send the lower frequencies to the subwoofer. I believe that THX has a set crossover at 80Hz. In that case, frequencies below 80Hz would be sent to the subwoofer for reproduction. Your main speakers would receive frequencies of 80Hz and above. Subwoofers with a crossover are more typically used if the main speakers do not reproduce the entire bass range (down to 15-20Hz) or if the main speakers cannot play at the volume level desired without distortion. My Denon 4802 receiver allows subwoofer crossover settings at 40, 60, 80, 100, 120 Hz. My receiver can also be set for both Subwoofer and Mains to reproduce the low frequency signal simultaneously. If you resond with the model of your processor or receiver, I'm sure someone here would be able to help you with your individual setup.


Your receiver or processor could have a LFE or Low Frequency Effects channel. If so, this is where you would connect the Sub. If not, then you could use your tape loop outputs.


If the Subwoofer is interally amplified, your main amplifier no longer needs to reproduce the lower frequencies. That should give you additional power headroom with your main amplifier.


You should take a look at the following primer for addtional information:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_1_1/index.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thanks nbourbaki.


I was just wondering since all my front speakers have inbuilt subs and go pretty low, if there is any need to cut the low frequencies away from them, even my surrounds go lower than the THX 80hz and you can hear that they do.

Wouldn´t the sound be best by having all the speakers going as low as they can and not cut any freqeuncy from them so the lows would be produced by them and also the sub, and the extreme lows would problably just come from the sub as the others can´t probably go quite that low.
 

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I guess that at least my main speakers' woofers aren't as good as the ones in my subwoofer. The *quality* of that low part of the spectrum is also something that could change. I think that's what's happened in my case.
 

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Get a test disc / Sound Pressure meter and run a sine sweep. See how far down your system can go and if the bottom frequencies give audible or palpable responses.


This is a nice, objective means to see what your system has got not to mention locate the peaks and valleys at various frequencies.


(BTW - a well built, powerful sub never hurts in the home Theater environment)


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I live in iceland and so if I want a sound pressure meter I´ll have to order one and learn how to use it :) I was hoping someone had a similiar def tech setup as me and would know how much bass there is actually to gain. I know a sub wouldn´t hurt any, but for a 1000+$ which is quite a bit for me I would want be really hearing a difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by nbourbaki
Funny, based on "The Perfect Vision" magazine rating of Best Budget Subwoofer of the year for the DT SuperCube 1, I had this speaker on my short list for auditioning.


Could you describe why you believe that this speaker is the worst DT ever created? What should I listen for when I audition this box? Did you audition the speaker in a store or did you have the opportunity to audition it in your home? What source material did you use in your audition?


Thanks for the input
I'm not a believer, so the magazine reviews do not draw my attention.

I auditioned the subs in the dealer's listening room using the "ultimate" (imho) test - Bach Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, BMV 565. I could clearly hear the sub non-linearity, it sounded like it had a "hump" in the middle.

I also listened to some stuff the dealer offered, and it just sounded boomy, not like a subwoofer, but like a boombox.


My advice - audition it yourself. That's the best test you can give to anything. If you like it, what else matters?


Hope it helped :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Kir,


What subs do you then recomend the highest? SVS?


What do you think of REL, M&K, Velodyne etc.?
 

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keyser,

I would try to avoid giving the sub ratings, otherwise this thread will start a flame war like happened to a lot of them in the past.

I just gave you my opinion on the Def Tech subwoofers since I was literally shocked during the audition.


Here is my configuration, if it helps:

Front: Def Tech BP-10B

Rear: Def Tech BP-6B

S/W: SVS 16-46PC Plus

Amplifier: Yamaha DSP-A1
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
hmm... well I live in iceland and we have no retailers for those manufacturers here so I kinda have my back to the wall. The forums and magazine reviews are the only stuff I have.
 

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Keyser,

A quality subwoofer (or two) is almost essential in any Home Theater system no matter what speakers you use. Gary Reber used Dunlavys massive floorstanders (rated as amongst only a handful of trully "full range" speakers, meaning 20Hz -20kHz) and still used a pair of subwoofers in his superb WSR lab.

Do your research on the following basis and in no particular order,


Budget (Important of course)


Distortion (See below)


Size,

There are some decent quality small subs around, however, room permiting, for the ultimate bass performance, nothing beats a big amp, coupled to a big driver, in a big (large internal volume) enclosure.


Output,

Particularly in the difficult lower frequencies. Much of what is measured and quoted by many is likely to be huge amounts of distortion so take care, not just for your sound qualitys sake, that you purchase a sub capable of low distortion even at reference levels.


Frequency Range, again care should be taken. Some companys give "in room" (or "what room"as I like to call them) figures which are also known as room loaded figures which with the help of a given room actaully "magnify" sonics hence enhance figures to make the sub look a lot more powerfull than it really is. If you compare these measurements with something from another manufacturer who uses a completely sound absorbant chamber, you will not get the full picture.

I've heard people quoting figures down to 16Hz for a 50watt midwoofer the size of a shoebox and comparing it to a 1250 watt monster with an 18" driver that is quoted down to 15Hz. Guess which one was tested in a sound absorbant chamber?


There is much more to mention but its 12.45 am over here and past my bedtime.
 
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