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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/19522391


for starters, you need to read a bit about how power supplies in a tv work...


yes, i expected the usual dismissal (coat hangers, etc.)...



you'd be surprised at what i've learned.... those "learnings" have saved me considerable funds...


you also might want to read a bit about what "learning" really is...

Dear AVS:


Can you please create a "$5 and under" and "snake oil" forum for these swell bunch of guys. They really need a forum of their own to prosper in. Then more people would come out of the closet and talk about how quality cables, power cords, and line conditioners improved audio/video for them.


Thanks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman /forum/post/19523585


What about the am station example:


"For instance I had an install with foil shield and brad shielded CL2 wire in a Lo-Z microphone line of 75 ft length that was receiving AM radio as clearly as if the tuner were plugged into the system. No amount of field jerry rigs would solve the problem so I tried exchanging the cable with a section of Canare L4E6S and that solved the problem



seemed obvious that degraded the intended signal somewhat, perhaps he just didn't like the particular song playing.

Funny how you twist things around just to fit your preexisting agenda. He wrote, "that was receiving AM radio as clearly as if the tuner were plugged into the system" and you describe it as, "seemed obvious that degraded the intended signal somewhat". Not good.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw30 /forum/post/19523635


Dear AVS:


Can you please create a "$5 and under" and "snake oil" forum for these swell bunch of guys. They really need a forum of their own to prosper in. Then more people would come out of the closet and talk about how quality cables, power cords, and line conditioners improved audio/video for them.


Thanks.

It hasn't been done because it's redundant. There already are forums like that. One of them is called Audio Asylum.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/19523626


Of course you will say that and I expected it. It was to see how you will respond to it and that in turn exposes what your preconceived notion is. In this case, you are one of the cable believers and that's why you keep digging up issues that are not even problems with existing audio cable technology because you want it to be so that all those pseudo audio cable science written on those company white papers seem valid.


One part you've omitted in the quote (#197) was "Surely Shure will believe it and say so. If you are selling audio products with added feature that other companies don't bother with, would you advertise that feature as unnecessary one?" So you do agree with it, right?

Sure by itself, and even with additional anecdotal evidence it's worth questioning. Pleas re-read my post, are you using a language translator?


You should really try to be objective, as someone seems to want, at least,ve the impression you know something about science you're failing miserably in the objectivity department. I've never stated I'm a cable believer or that I'm not a cable believer. What difference would it make, there's nothing in my writing which would make any of that relevant anyway. I'm looking at an area which, imo, requires some clarification.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.ooohhh /forum/post/19478207


My father's reference setup is an entirely different story the MIT interconnects clearly made the highs seem brighter and more full, but to hear that difference you will not only increase the cost of the interconnects x10

To keep things factual: MIT products are very technically NOT cables. They are no more a cable then me taking a DEQ2496 and having a input and output cable connected to it.


Anything with a big mystery box full of passive components in the middle is NOT a cable.


Secondly double blind testing is never about which sounds better, it is about following a difference regardless of preference.


Thirdly anyone can make an interconnect, cable, music interface and on purpose make it sound 'different' and then market that difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw30
Dear AVS:


Can you please create a "$5 and under" and "snake oil" forum for these swell bunch of guys. They really need a forum of their own to prosper in. Then more people would come out of the closet and talk about how quality cables, power cords, and line conditioners improved audio/video for them.


Thanks.


Dear AVS:


Thank you for being an open forum which values an open exchange of ideas, unlike all too many audio sites that restrict parameters of discussion which has only served to inoculate their members from anything that would substantively counter their existing attitudes about audio. Then when these members venture out to explore other audio sites, now with deeply entrenched views in tow, they are unable to adapt to any significant pushback challenge. Instead of simply ignoring these challenges or seriously re-examining their own attitudes, they seek to recreate the safe womb of restricted ideas provided by other forums.


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw30
Dear AVS:


Can you please create a "$5 and under" and "snake oil" forum for these swell bunch of guys. They really need a forum of their own to prosper in. Then more people would come out of the closet and talk about how quality cables, power cords, and line conditioners improved audio/video for them.


Thanks.
perhaps avs IS the forum for the $5 and under crowd...



"come out of the closet"... come now, is it that tragic to have your "beliefs" challenged by people? or is the tragedy having to deal with "reality"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd
It hasn't been done because it's redundant. There already are forums like that. One of them is called Audio Asylum.
yes, amoungst others... there are more than enough places for the "true believers"... however, like most "true believers", regardless of the subject at hand, they want to impose those "beliefs" everywhere they go...


fortunately, avs isn't one of those places... rejoice, there IS some sanity in the world...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
Dear AVS:


Thank you for being an open forum which values an open exchange of ideas, unlike all too many audio sites that restrict parameters of discussion which has only served to inoculate their members from anything that would substantively counter their existing attitudes about audio. Then when these members venture out to explore other audio sites, now with deeply entrenched views in tow, they are unable to adapt to any significant pushback challenge. Instead of simply ignoring these challenges or seriously re-examining their own attitudes, they seek to recreate the safe womb of restricted ideas provided by other forums.


Thanks
lol... thats good cruel, and an altogether too true picture of the situation at hand...
 

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Quote:
Anything with a big mystery box full of passive components in the middle is NOT a cable.
+1
Quote:
Secondly double blind testing is never about which sounds better, it is about following a difference regardless of preference.
DBTs can be used to determine which sounds better, but those aren't the DBTs we're talking about here. (And there's no point in determining which sounds better until you've determined that you can tell them apart at all.)
Quote:
Thirdly anyone can make an interconnect, cable, music interface and on purpose make it sound 'different' and then market that difference.
Fourthly, anyone can make an interconnect, cable, music interface that sounds the same as all the others and then market it as different anyway.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku /forum/post/19523707


To keep things factual: MIT products are very technically NOT cables. They are no more a cable then me taking a DEQ2496 and having a input and output cable connected to it.


Anything with a big mystery box full of passive components in the middle is NOT a cable.


Secondly double blind testing is never about which sounds better, it is about following a difference regardless of preference.


Thirdly anyone can make an interconnect, cable, music interface and on purpose make it sound 'different' and then market that difference.

And yet, even MIT's, own people can't pick out their cables in a blind test:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...9789#msg539789


BTW, anyone think it's coincidence that they chose a name using the same initials as a distinguished institution of higher learning? Talk about marketing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman
I've never stated I'm a cable believer or that I'm not a cable believer.
You've just reaffirmed my earlier reply, "It was to see how you will respond to it and that in turn exposes what your preconceived notion is". There would be no need for such investigation if you already stated one way or another.
Although, some try to disguise by making things up. Some others don't realize what was in the Kool-aid they drank.

Quote:
I'm looking at an area which, imo, requires some clarification.
Your opinion requires some reading on the basics about audio cables.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
http://www.sound.westhost.com/cables...#interconnects
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11
Why is it that those who think they have a better method, are never willing to put in any effort to prove it?
Over @ Polk Forums DarqueKnight put together a testing methology that is published in JOSS (Journal of Sensory Studies).


His basic premise is that AB/X is fundamentally flawed and that many giants in the audioindustry have abandonded this method.

Link to his thread and his abstract
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku
Over @ Polk Forums DarqueKnight put together a testing methology that is published in JOSS (Journal of Sensory Studies).


His basic premise is that AB/X is fundamentally flawed and that many giants in the audioindustry have abandonded this method.

Link to his thread and his abstract
Already been linked to earlier in this thread. He provides no evidence that ABX is flawed, just opinion. All he does is describe a method of listening, no verification that the differences described actually exist. Big deal.


Obviously without blind listening, it's easy to identify the DUT. Not sure what the point is, or why it was published, in what's basically a food journal no less.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd
You've just reaffirmed my earlier reply, "It was to see how you will respond to it and that in turn exposes what your preconceived notion is". There would be no need for such investigation if you already stated one way or another.
Although, some try to disguise by making things up. Some others don't realize what was in the Kool-aid they drank.
I leave out certain quotes of yours as a gift to you, it just seems the decent thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd
Your opinion requires some reading on the basics about audio cables.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
http://www.sound.westhost.com/cables...#interconnects
Neither of the sites you link mention of RFI or EMI let alone any audible effects they may or may not introduce, so how exactly is that relevant to the RFI/EMI discussion. Just shows, yet once again, you are incapable of grasping what is being discussed.


With regards to RFI/EMI interference and it's audibility at low levels I don't have an opinion. In the process of looking for some studies on the subject I found the gadget Shure is selling which was accompanied with a claim. I clearly stated I can found no evidence to back up such claims but it does appear to be consistent with general pro audio practices to reduce or eliminate the effects of RFI/EMI. Can low or inaudible levels really have a negative impact perceived sound quality, I don't know, that's the reason for the questioning.
 

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Like most of the in-line modules Shure and others make, they were developed at the request of customers in the field encountering unusual problems. As I mentioned on rare occasions I have had RF incursion. In my case it was the audio that was an issue due to the proximity to the transmitter and the transmitter frequency. I have had maybe 3 issues with RF since I started in this biz.


We do use phase reversers a LOT, hi/lo pass filters, and ground lifts in li level balanced interconnects between house sound systems and satt trucks or mobile recording trucks. Shure sells all of these in large quantity but I would bet the A15RF is a rarity.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11
Already been linked to earlier in this thread. He provides no evidence that ABX is flawed, just opinion. All he does is describe a method of listening, no verification that the differences described actually exist. Big deal.


Obviously without blind listening, it's easy to identify the DUT. Not sure what the point is, or why it was published, in what's basically a food journal no less.
As a note: Recently there was a cable burn-in thread there.


I offered to $100 and bragging rights to send two 12' Belden 12AWG GLS locking nanners that have easily 400-500 use on them and two 12' Belden with same nanners that have never been used (all cable from the same spool). All they had to do is place two sets of cables into their correct catagory.


You have never seen so much back peddling in your life. It was like they just rounded the bend in a trail and happened upon a Cobra. It was comical to say the least.


DK was one of the back pedlers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku
As a note: Recently there was a cable burn-in thread there.


I offered to $100 and bragging rights to send two 12' Belden 12AWG GLS locking nanners that have easily 400-500 use on them and two 12' Belden with same nanners that have never been used (all cable from the same spool). All they had to do is place two sets of cables into their correct catagory.


You have never seen so much back peddling in your life. It was like they just rounded the bend in a trail and happened upon a Cobra. It was comical to say the least.


DK was one of the back pedlers.
Not surprised. That forum's sole existence seems to be to spread audio myths. I wouldn't take it too seriously, no one else does. Most of the more active posters there don't even own Polk speakers.


I'm surprised Polk Audio puts up with them. I'm sure they drive many people away from Polk speakers with their arrogance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj
perhaps avs IS the forum for the $5 and under crowd...
I think the "CECB" sub-forum here specifically has already got that title sewn up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman
Just shows, yet once again, you are incapable of grasping what is being discussed.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd
Try this, after listening to music for a few minutes with your system, stop the music and put your ear close enough to the speaker until you notice the noise floor (hiss, buzz or hum).
I was waiting to see if you have any grasp on EMI/RFI translating to audibility but your reply is as I expected.


Do you know what buzzing from the speaker can mean?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/19524023


... Not sure what the point is, or why it was published, in what's basically a food journal no less.

Most likely because that journal didn't require further evidence that it works.
Remember, IEEE wants a bunch more work before it will even review the paper. Not submitted to JASA? JAES? Why not?


I wonder what expertise those peers reviewing the paper have in sound, acoustics, etc, way out of the food industry knowledge base.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/19524524


I think the "CECB" sub-forum here specifically has already got that title sewn up.

lol...
 
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