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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To all potential PN50B850/860 thin plasma buyers please be aware that the abnormally loud buzz exhibited by these sets is deemed normal by Samsung and no exchange or replacement will be performed. Buy a different brand.


This echos a similar warning here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179501


The sets have been returned in droves to Best Buy and other retailers because of the buzzing noise they make. After working with Samsung case management for my particular set for many months they are now firmly committed to saying the level of buzz is normal for plasmas and this set. I can agree its normal for this set, but its at least 100x worse than every other plasma Ive owned (4). Yes they all buzz, but generally less than 6 INCHES away. Ive now had 4 different B850/B860 combinations and they all can be heard from 10 FEET. This range appears to have an inherent design fault.


If you do decide to get one, please remember to return it directly to the dealer you bought it from as Samsung will not be able to fix the buzz you are hearing. If you are a dealer this might not be the best set to stock. If the buzz does not bother you, then great - the set is wonderful apart from the buzz (really).


This is what I had to go through to get to the situation where I have a buzzing plasma that Samsung will not deal with (taken from by BBB complaint which Samsung waited the full duration of time to respond to, and said tough).


Samsung is unable to resolve an issue w/ several plasmas I have had from them from 6/15/09. Long version here. Summary: 6/15 I bought a PN50B850 from Best Buy. It started buzzing & I could hear it in another room when volume was on! I have owned 3 different plasma brands and this is 100x worse (not normal). Returned 1st TV to BB & the 2nd arrived on 7/2. 2nd TV had same issue, could hear the buzz 15′ away. Called SS who sent repair dealer (tvunlimited). Claimed its normal. I escalate it & SS contacted a different repair center. On 7/24/09 tech tries to replace board but has wrong model. On 8/3/09 tech replaces 3 boards but buzzing got WORSE. On 8/14/09, cnet SS rep arranges replacing 2nd set w/ upgraded model. Unfortunately buzz still there. I have already installed the $$$ SS mount so I see if I can live w/ buzz. On 10/25/09 I decide I can't. Called SS & they send tech w/ new fix, but tv ALREADY has fix installed. No change to buzzing issue. Called support & told they need to call the service center to check that the problem was unrepairable & they'd call back. They didnt. I call a day later & told tvunlimited should have set up appointment w/ me. I call tvunlimited & they said no fix for problem, it's usual on these sets. I call SS again on 11/3 & they say need to contact someone in product & will call back. No callback. I have now had 4 different versions of the same set. SS never call back when they say they would (4) & not addressing the problem. The buzz w/ these TVs seems inherent design fault (not typical for plasmas). Widely reported across the web. Even cnet thread I started had 3 people returning buzzing sets.


Jonathan
 

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It's posts like these that claim multiple sets, same buzz, that lead me to believe something more than faulty sets are the cause. Maybe a combination of the set and the house itself.


The buzz with these sets are not common, people will always post on the internet if they have a problem. The ratio of people that go on the internet to post about how great their set isn't anywhere near the number of people who complain. That's not to say there isn't a problem at all, just that it isn't nearly as exaggerated as the threads make it seem.


I'm sorry to hear about your problem and would hate if it happened to me. However, my set is going on 1100 hours (PN50B650) and has no real issues aside from the Cinema Smooth bug. Yes, it is the B650 model, but they still have been reported with buzz issues, and I'm sure that the 850/860 crowd is in a similar situation.


There is a buzz thread for a reason. Keep posts like this inside that thread, we don't need every person posting a new thread about how their set is performing, positive or negative.


I would also love to know how you got this little tidbit:
Quote:
The sets have been returned in droves to Best Buy and other retailers because of the buzzing noise they make.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus /forum/post/17603603


It's posts like these that claim multiple sets, same buzz, that lead me to believe something more than faulty sets are the cause. Maybe a combination of the set and the house itself.


The buzz with these sets are not common, people will always post on the internet if they have a problem. The ratio of people that go on the internet to post about how great their set isn't anywhere near the number of people who complain.


I'm sorry to hear about your problem and would hate if it happened to me. However, my set is going on 1100 hours (PN50B650) and has no real issues aside from the Cinema Smooth bug. Yes, it is the B650 model, but they still have been reported with buzz issues, and I'm sure that the 850/860 crowd is in a similar situation.


There is a buzz thread for a reason. Keep posts like this inside that thread, we don't need every person posting a new thread about how their set is performing, positive or negative.


I would also love to know how you got this little tidbit:

Aeonus,


I specifically named the models. They are all the ultra thin B850/860 models that share almost identical designs and boards. I can see that other Samsung plasma models, like the B650s, may not have *this* problem. I am claiming its a design flaw. Its too widely reported on this forum and elsewhere. I've tried 4 different versions of the same sets that all had nearly the same problem. I've had 4 other brands and models of plasmas that don't have this problem (2 at the same location in my house). Given both these variables it seems likely to me the sets design is at fault.


My tidbit comes from reading threads, and visiting my own local bestbuy where an 850 or 860 is always in the "return pile". I'd love to get some concrete statistics.


Jonathan
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotter /forum/post/17603683


Aeonus,


I specifically named the models. They are all the ultra thin B850/860 models that share almost identical designs and boards. I can see that other Samsung plasma models, like the B650s, may not have *this* problem. I am claiming its a design flaw. Its too widely reported on this forum and elsewhere. I've tried 4 different versions of the same sets that all had nearly the same problem. I've had 4 other brands and models of plasmas that don't have this problem (2 at the same location in my house). Given both these variables it seems likely to me the sets design is at fault.


My tidbit comes from reading threads, and visiting my own local bestbuy where an 850 or 860 is always in the "return pile". I'd love to get some concrete statistics.


Jonathan

I am aware that the B850/860 are different models, but all have been reported in the buzzing thread, and I haven't noticed any model having the majority based on the reports there.


I am questing your tidbit mainly because Cleveland Plasma has only had 1 return based on buzzing out of all their units sold, or so I read.


My local Best Buy calibration person (who claims he has worked on quite a few of the latest Samsungs) had not ever heard of the buzzing problem until I asked him about it.


The sets that do buzz are indeed a design flaw, whether through the quality of the components or perhaps the casing. Nobody is arguing that. But just be aware that the threads that point this out do tend to be skewed in the direction of people who have issues with their sets. Not many people go onto a video forum just to post that their set doesn't buzz.


What you had sucks, and yes, I would be furious if I was in the same position. But then again, there is a reason I buy local for most electronic devices and why I don't bother with manufacturer warranty if I am within the return window.
 

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Dude, I get you've had a bad experience and are frustrated. But what's the point of getting bitter and spaming the forum? You seem to be posting the same message in multiple topics here today, all with the overly dramatic generalization that everyone should stay away because what happened to you will happen to them. However, the facts are not on your side. Even if, as you suggested in another topic, some people just aren't as sensitive to the issue (which I don't agree with, but just for agrument's sake), the net reuslt is still that a majority of people perceive their set as problem free and are happy. In this case perception is reality -- if they don't hear a buzz, they don't have a problem. Don't get me wrong -- I think it's fine and appropriate to post your experience. But turning all angry and blanekting the board with your frustration doesn't help. I sincerley feel for your negative experience. That would suck. I get it. I would be mad too. But no matter what you say you can't change the fact that not everyoneis having the same experience. It's a bummer, but that's the way it is.
 

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Let me make a single observation on why your post may be skewed.


You stated that the buzz what 100x worse than the other one you had.


If the other one you had had a buzz at around 3-6db (the bottom limit of human hearing) then a 100x difference would put the buzz at about 120-160db or about the sound of a F16 or 747 taking off 3 feet from you.


Including your comment that they are being returned in 'droves' without anything other than seeing one in a return bin without any explanation as to why it was there, it could have been there because it was too big or small.


All these tend to make people a bit leary of your sensationalistic type of post. As most have stated and I have many times, people don't get on to say:


Boy, I'm really pissed at my Samsung because it's really perfect and working just like the manual says it should.


With 100's of thousands sold, droves could be classified as 1000? That's under .01 percent. What's the defect rate of Duracell or Energizer batteries sold in bulk packs. I'd bet that if you buy 100000 batteries you'll find a few that are simply dead or have a lower than standard voltage. Does that make all Duracell's junk and should not be purchased?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookworm370 /forum/post/17604133


As most have stated and I have many times, people don't get on to say:


Boy, I'm really pissed at my Samsung because it's really perfect and working just like the manual says it should.


With 100's of thousands sold, droves could be classified as 1000? That's under .01 percent. What's the defect rate of Duracell or Energizer batteries sold in bulk packs. I'd bet that if you buy 100000 batteries you'll find a few that are simply dead or have a lower than standard voltage. Does that make all Duracell's junk and should not be purchased?

Couldn't have said it better myself. He clearly has no perception of statistics. Every product will eventually have some kind of defect that makes some owner dissatisfied. Does that make the product trash? Uh, no. It's all about the defect rate and the confidence interval of quality. Clearly, the "buzz" issue affects more sets than it should because I don't see as many specific complaints regarding other sets, but the vast majority of B series sets are probably unaffected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiggs /forum/post/17604177


Couldn't have said it better myself. He clearly has no perception of statistics. Every product will eventually have some kind of defect that makes some owner dissatisfied. Does that make the product trash? Uh, no. It's all about the defect rate and the confidence interval of quality. Clearly, the "buzz" issue affects more sets than it should because I don't see as many specific complaints regarding other sets, but the vast majority of B series sets are probably unaffected.

Indeed I am p*ssed as several of you have said. Ive worked with Samsung support for months trying to fix a problem with this series of sets. I even bought locally to enable me to return, which I did initially. I would *love* to hear a B850 or B860 from someone who says it doesn't "buzz" abnormally loudly. That way I would be better placed to claim (or stop claimig) it was inherent to all of these sets. Ive had *4* now all with the same issue over 6 months - that statistically seems unlikely to me - and to me indicates they'd all have this issue. People's tolerances to this will clearly vary - from those that really can't hear it, to those who are buying the story that its "normal" for plasma - which it isnt.


The thread I started on cnet months ago indicating how frustrating Samsung support was had 3 other people saying they'd returned the same model sets for the same reason. Yes the "droves" was perhaps a little much - but every single thread on this model has people returning it for this reason - and while they may be in the minority (yes, only people with problem post) - its a prevalent complaint.


I guess Im still amazed that this is now officially deemed acceptable by Samsung which is why I posted here. They have (it seems recently) now decided that the buzz exhibited by these is normal. Its like trying to say a car that gets flats every few miles is normal when other's dont. Sure, every car does get flats ... but... To me that's a significant change in direction for them. They are no longer trying to fix the problem once the "rubber grommit" fix has been tried.


I didn't "spam" this to multiple threads today, at least in my opinion. The other on avsforum went to some similar advice based on a B series. I simply concurred and linked across. The one on cnet may actually reach Samsung. I hope so.


The rest of this set is great - I've always said that when posting about it - but this characteristic is bad - and I won't defend Samsung after trying for so long to work with them - and I will actively discourage others from trying to work with Samsung rather than just returning it ASAP if they dont like the abormal buzz from this range.


So, if anyone in the mid-pennisular region of the SF bay area has one of these and things the buzzing is normal - please let me pop around for a few minutes so I can either (a) be even more convinced the entire range is faulty (b) be depressed that Samsung won't replace my 4th variation of this set with one thats great.


Jonathan
 

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You did spam because you said the same thing on the other thread which at least was already established then did the same here. Why not do one or the other? What was served by starting a new topic to say the same thing? And you didn't just link -- you did another whole long post... But whatever.


I still don't get why you wouldn't have just returned the thing at the beginning and been done with it. You've been reading and posting for a while so why would you have assumed you would get anywhere dealing with Samsung? Many of us have been warning people for months to not bother, that it will only lead to frustration. I stated here before I bought that they got one strike -- if I had a buzzer it would have gone back and I would have bought something else or just waited until the next model year. Trying 3-4 times and trying to work with Samsung after reading about their customer service reputation here brings to mind the old expression about "fool me twice..."


But you do continue to over-generalize your bummer experience. They have not, for example, universally decreed all the buzzing units as acceptable. They apparently did that for you and they have for some others. They also have had the description of what is acceptable on their website since at least July or August - it's nothing new. But they do also continue to agree that some people have problem sets and do agree to try and fix or replace them. Everyone's situation is different (and I suspect someone up to the luck of what tech they get or how much of a squeaky wheel they are with Samsung).


We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the buzz issue. No one has conclusively proved anything one way or another. I could argue the opposite of you - I went to about 8-9 stores when I was shopping and listened to various Samsung 2009 plasma models at each and never found a problem buzzer. But my hearing is just fine. And as I said, a couple dozen people, including a plasma expert and a music teacher with extremely sensitive hearing, have listened for the buzz and not heard any issue. Is it theoretically possible we're all hearing the same thing and some react to it differently? Perhaps. But if so it is not about the quality of one's hearing overall but would have to be that some people are simply extra sensitive to some unique frequency that most people aren't. If in fact that is the case, it actually would suggest there's nothing Samsung could really do - it would just mean that their sets are not the right choice for that unique small minority of people. I doubt it's that simple, but if that's what you want to believe, go for it. Either way, all the available statistics suggest this is only a problem for a minority of people. Which would still mean it is not an applicable concern or warning for the majority.


It's really simple for potential shoppers. If you are neutral on the Samsung and worried about the buzz, get something else. If you prefer the Samsung, get it from a place with a return policy. If it buzzes, return it immediately and move on. But from a place with no return policy or deal with Samsung at your own risk of pain and frustration.
 

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The op provided exactly the type of information people using these forums need to know. No need to attach him for his tone or level of frustration.


The sets in question provide an excellent combination of pq and beautiful design. The downside is the potential for a buzz that will drive you out of the room - if you get a buzzer.


The message? Be an informed consumer. If you have to have one of these sets, be smart and buy it from somewhere local that has a liberal return policy with no restocking fee.


That transfers the risk to the retailer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookworm370 /forum/post/17604133


Let me make a single observation on why your post may be skewed.


You stated that the buzz what 100x worse than the other one you had.


If the other one you had had a buzz at around 3-6db (the bottom limit of human hearing) then a 100x difference would put the buzz at about 120-160db or about the sound of a F16 or 747 taking off 3 feet from you.


NICE!....Bookworm370



I've got a "news break"...something I learned on Wednesday night that I found very intresting and is COMPLETELY related to Jotter's rant. It even suprised me....by the way I am

B860, No buzz at all and Cinema Smooth works perfectly.


I am in the middle of trying to fend off a "tender little macaroni" that I've known for a while....I knew she worked at Sears but I just found out she sold TV's. Even more suprising than that she now works for a SoCal BB. Well we kinda got together on Wednesday and she came over for a few minutes and saw my B860 and said it was her favorite. I asked her if she sold a lot of them at Sears.....suprisingly she said "no" but since she's worked at BB, she's sold 29 of them (she said they keep a scorecard for some rediculous employee leader board thing.....I think she thought I would find it stupid so she didn't elaborate) She also said the store had sold 412 (however she not positive of that exact number) of the 860 alone WOW!!!. In comparision, the place I got mine has only sold 92 and it's one of the best and most respected store around this area. I asked her about the buzzing issue with this model and she said she had heard about it...but not a lot. I asked about people returning them and she stated that there has been returns but not more than 15...she's going to find out exactly how many sold and returned and let me know...but she probably won't be able to tell me the reason why it was returned.


So if that holds up:

400 or so sets sold and 15, give or take, returned that kind of blows you stats about "being returned in droves" out the window. Sorry.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas /forum/post/17609063


You did spam because you said the same thing on the other thread which at least was already established then did the same here. Why not do one or the other? What was served by starting a new topic to say the same thing? And you didn't just link -- you did another whole long post... But whatever.


I still don't get why you wouldn't have just returned the thing at the beginning and been done with it. You've been reading and posting for a while so why would you have assumed you would get anywhere dealing with Samsung? Many of us have been warning people for months to not bother, that it will only lead to frustration. I stated here before I bought that they got one strike -- if I had a buzzer it would have gone back and I would have bought something else or just waited until the next model year. Trying 3-4 times and trying to work with Samsung after reading about their customer service reputation here brings to mind the old expression about "fool me twice..."


But you do continue to over-generalize your bummer experience. They have not, for example, universally decreed all the buzzing units as acceptable. They apparently did that for you and they have for some others. They also have had the description of what is acceptable on their website since at least July or August - it's nothing new. But they do also continue to agree that some people have problem sets and do agree to try and fix or replace them. Everyone's situation is different (and I suspect someone up to the luck of what tech they get or how much of a squeaky wheel they are with Samsung).


We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the buzz issue. No one has conclusively proved anything one way or another. I could argue the opposite of you - I went to about 8-9 stores when I was shopping and listened to various Samsung 2009 plasma models at each and never found a problem buzzer. But my hearing is just fine. And as I said, a couple dozen people, including a plasma expert and a music teacher with extremely sensitive hearing, have listened for the buzz and not heard any issue. Is it theoretically possible we're all hearing the same thing and some react to it differently? Perhaps. But if so it is not about the quality of one's hearing overall but would have to be that some people are simply extra sensitive to some unique frequency that most people aren't. If in fact that is the case, it actually would suggest there's nothing Samsung could really do - it would just mean that their sets are not the right choice for that unique small minority of people. I doubt it's that simple, but if that's what you want to believe, go for it. Either way, all the available statistics suggest this is only a problem for a minority of people. Which would still mean it is not an applicable concern or warning for the majority.


It's really simple for potential shoppers. If you are neutral on the Samsung and worried about the buzz, get something else. If you prefer the Samsung, get it from a place with a return policy. If it buzzes, return it immediately and move on. But from a place with no return policy or deal with Samsung at your own risk of pain and frustration.

I can't say it better. There's enough threads on this topic already, if you have buzz, return it and get another brand. I bought 1 after reading all these, installed it couple days ago, no buzz at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think we've all agreed that you should buy from someone you can return it to (I said so in my first post so Im not sure why that keeps getting said). I was trying to highlight, apparently unsuccessfully, than Samsung have "tightened up" on their policy regarding this range of sets buzzing (their words not mine), and therefore I'd assume are being less helpful for this issue to everyone - and its not worth trying to get them to "fix it". The risk is too great.


The fact they explicitly have guidelines in their support for this I find interesting. If I'd have known this months ago when the initial round of buzzing issues (with fixes reported from Scandinavia etc) were reported I would have stopped trying to get a working version. I really thought they'd be able to fix it. After 4 sets, and lots of similar threads here, I'd hope most of you would understand why I believe my statement about all sets buzzing loudly to be accurate. Again, looking forward to hearing one that DOESNT. Using store return numbers is certainly more compelling than my "droves" statement (clearly just supposition) but it actually indicates little about whether the sets have it or not. As I said earlier, Samsung tech claim its "normal" and if this was my first plasma I may believe them. Others may indeed not hear it.


Yes, the 100x worse is clearly not an precise statement. I was merely stating that I could hear the buzz from 10 feet +, whereas with other plasmas I can hear buzz from less than 6". You dont have to use db's (and yes, thats still 20x if I use distance to a point where I can still easily hear it)


Oh, *bump*


Jonathan
 

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People keep saying to buy this set locally with a good return option because it is the only known solution to the buzz problem.


Samsung service has been worthless in actually solving the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallen /forum/post/17613219


Just got a 58B650 and no buzz. I know two others that have B series and no buzz.

Different series, different housing, different parts. Glad its a good set.


Jonathan
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanski /forum/post/17613207


Had mine 58b860 since June flawless...and I love it.

Nolanski,


Was it you that went through quite a few before getting a good one? Perhaps Im misremembering. Hmmmm. Makes me wish Samsung would try swapping all the boards again on my set (which they wont do)


Jonathan
 

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I dont see why this post would be considered "spamming". Spamming is trying to sell stuff or redirect users to other sites. Hes having a problem and wants to use the forum to "get it out". I say... go for it.


I wonder if some of those that are upset by this are just brand-apologists?


Oh well.
 
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