[ShagnWagon]

People complain that the HD931 has black crush issues, but can projectors, or more specifically the projectors covered by this forum, display black well enough for this to be an issue? I'm borrowing an HD931 right now and I can't seem to see what the problem with this player is. It looks pretty good to me.


So I'm thinking that projectors probably can't display black well enough for the black crush complaint to be an issue for projector owners. Is this correct?

 

[BigHeat]

There's no accounting for taste and you're opening a big can that is pretty much taste-centric.


The simplest of answers is: look at a few models and see if the black levels bother you or not.


Going a bit more detailed: look at several projectors of varying technology (DLP / LCD) and varying resolutions / aspect ratios (4:3 / 16:9). Mix in what you want to use it for (gaming, movies, HD, HTPC), your room (ambient light), and budget then decide.


There will always be something better - just look at how the forums are based on price. The trick is being happy with what you have (good luck with that ). For most normal folk (anybody who does not frequent these forums), whatever you choose will be impressive and create jealous feelings.

 

[darinp2]

Quote:

Originally posted by ShagnWagon People complain that the HD931 has black crush issues, but can projectors, or more specifically the projectors covered by this forum, display black well enough for this to be an issue? I'm borrowing an HD931 right now and I can't seem to see what the problem with this player is. It looks pretty good to me. So I'm thinking that projectors probably can't display black well enough for the black crush complaint to be an issue for projector owners. Is this correct?

My understanding is that the 931 is really just crushing the "below black" signals and that this issue is mostly just with calibration. My understanding is that most DVDs do not contain "below black" pixels and so you wouldn't notice unless you used a calibration DVD with "below black". I believe that there is more "above white" in sources and this is more of an issue with the 931 for me.


For those who don't know, video signals on DVDs have black at 16 and white at 235 (I believe), while the 931 converts these to PC levels from 0 to 255. This can also cause a banding effect since that can't be done linearly with 8 pixels (256 unique values).


I think pretty much all of these projectors should be able to show a difference between "below black" and "black" in video signals at some calibration.


--Darin

 

[ShagnWagon]

Im sorry, you misunderstand. I own a Z2 already. I'm just currious if there is actually a problem with the HD931 when used with a digital projector that most likely can not show black well enough to reveal the dvd player's defficiency.


I only have experience viewing the X1 (demo) and my Z2 which I've put 300 hrs on.


DARINP2: Can you ellaborate on the white problems more? I'm borrowing a HD931 for a bit and I'm trying to see whats wrong with it. So far I dont have too many complaints, but I'm having trouble making the colors look what I consider good. I have DVE, but I need to tweak some more...

 

[darinp2]

Quote:

Originally posted by ShagnWagon DARINP2: Can you ellaborate on the white problems more? I'm borrowing a HD931 for a bit and I'm trying to see whats wrong with it. So far I dont have too many complaints, but I'm having trouble making the colors look what I consider good. I have DVE, but I need to tweak some more...

I don't know if the DVE DVD has an above white test. If it did it would probably be on one of the pluge screens. I know that AVIA Pro and my DVE 1080i DVHS tape have above white tests.


Stacey Spears has done quite a bit of looking at sources for WM9 and he has told me that the most likely place to see above white is with bright light shining through a window. He said that many of these have above white pixels, so if you aren't getting that you will lose some detail. Unfortunately, I can't think of a specific scene from another DVD for testing this. Maybe Vanilla Sky, but it has been a while since I looked at that one.


One way of looking at it is that if it doesn't bother you then it isn't really a problem (but may become one later).


I have been using a Momitsu V880 and it passes the video signal correctly (but also has adjustments for doing expansions similar to the 931). The other thing that bothered me about the 931 when I had one was the edge enhancement. It made Jennifer Connelly's face in "Dark City" look worse than with the V880, IMO.


Anyway, I believe that the 941 is coming out soon (it looks like the 841 is already out) and since the 931 was Samsung's first try at a DVI upscaling player and they made some mistakes that have been pointed out to them, I hope they have addressed some of those issues.


--Darin

 

[ShagnWagon]

I hope they fix the problems too, because I preordered a 941! I preordered it because I got an excellent price for it. So here's to hoping it's better...