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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Suggestions have been for me to put a couple of center channel speakers on the front right and left since the only place I have for the speakers in my HT cabinet is a space 32" wide by 9" tall.


I've had my bookshelf speakers on their sides in there for 10 years, and did not realize I was hurting the speaker's "imaging".


From what I've been reading, front and right should always be vertical. And that center should be vertical as well, but the compromise is horizontal for the center.


So I would appreciate your thoughts on placing MTM centers on the right and left channels. I almost wonder if bookshelf MT would be a better solution with less imaging problems than MTM.


Your thoughts are welcome!


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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If you buy speakers that are designed as LCR speakers you should be able to place them vertically or horizontally.



The whole MTM center channel discussion. Plenty of threads on that one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt /forum/post/19572103


If you buy speakers that are designed as LCR speakers you should be able to place them vertically or horizontally.

Yes but I cannot think of many that are equally good in both orientations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Are there many drawbacks to using two center channel speakers for front right and left speakers?


I was using two bookshelf speakers on their sides for the front left and right.

I have to buy replacements for front left and right. Would using two center speakers for front left and right be better or worse?


Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 /forum/post/19574284


Are there many drawbacks to using two center channel speakers for front right and left speakers?


I was using two bookshelf speakers on their sides for the front left and right.

I have to buy replacements for front left and right. Would using two center speakers for front left and right be better or worse?


Thanks for your thoughts.

It really depends on your choice of "center channel speakers." Most are unsuitable, imho, even for center channel use. OTOH, if it is a 3way with vertically-arrayed mid and tweeter and properly chosen crossovers, it will work well when used horizontally as center or L/R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've had BIC DV62 bookshelf and center channel for years.


And was considering using DV62-CLRS centers for left and right.

or

BIC FH6-LCR

or

same DV62si bookshelf on side.


I would be willing of spending more money if you have some ideas.


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 /forum/post/19575667


I've had BIC DV62 bookshelf and center channel for years.


And was considering using DV62-CLRS centers for left and right.

or

BIC FH6-LCR

or

same DV62si bookshelf on side.


I would be willing of spending more money if you have some ideas.


Thanks,


Jeff

The only BIC cc I would consider would be the three-way VK-6LCR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Couple of questions.....


1. Just curious why you recommended this BIC speaker? Do you have other recommended LCR speakers to use LCR?


2. Since the VK6-LCR has Woofers on side of tweeters, what do you think about bookshelf speaker on sides with MT orientation? or TM?


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 /forum/post/19576057


Couple of questions.....


1. Just curious why you recommended this BIC speaker? Do you have other recommended LCR speakers to use LCR?

Because it is a 3-way with vertically-arrayed mid and tweeter. On paper, it is the best BIC has to offer in a CC.

Quote:
2. Since the VK6-LCR has Woofers on side of tweeters, what do you think about bookshelf speaker on sides with MT orientation? or TM?


Thanks

I am sorry but I do not want to recount the reasons why driver positioning and orientation are relevant and why typical MTM or TM speakers should not be used horizontally. It has been posted and published many times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I understand that MTM and MT speakers are recommended to be used vertically. But I've been dealt a hand with openings in my HT cabinets that are 9" high and 32" wide, so I would like too if I can get some good sounding speakers to work there if possible.


1. But will the average listener even notice if bookshelf speakers are placed on their side? Is the difference very subtle, so for most it's hard to hear? Or is the difference great, so that moving bookshelf speakers from horizontal to vertical will cause the listener to say "Wow, I've really been missing a lot"?


2. Are MTM center channel speakers any better for horizontal use than bookshelf speakers used on their sides? For instance, for front left and right use, will the average listener really like a center channel speakers when used horizontally a lot more than the bookshelf speakers when on their side).


3. If you think MTM center channel speakers used horizontally, are better than bookshelf speakers on side, which MTM do you suggest?


These two MTM were mentioned as possible candidates.

Energy RC

BIC VK6-LCR

And I found these through some searching.

Ascend 340

Aperion 6c


Thoughts on which MTM might work best used horizontally?


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 /forum/post/19578606


I understand that MTM and MT speakers are recommended to be used vertically.



1. But will the average listener even notice if bookshelf speakers (mine are BIC DV62si) are placed on their side? Is the difference very subtle, so for most it's hard to hear? Or is the difference great, so that moving bookshelf speakers from horizontal to vertical will cause the listener to say "Wow, I've really been missing a lot"?


2. Are MTM center channel speakers any better for horizontal use than bookshelf speakers used on their sides? For instance, for front left and right use, will the average listener really like a center channel speakers when used horizontally a lot more than the bookshelf speakers when on their side).


3. If you think MTM center channel speakers used horizontally, are better than bookshelf speakers on side, which MTM do you suggest?


These two MTM were mentioned as possible candidates.

Energy RC

BIC VK6-LCR

And I found these through some searching.

Ascend 340

Aperion 6c


Thoughts on which MTM might work best used horizontally?


Thanks,


Jeff

Why are you ignoring Kal? Get horizontal speakers with vertically aligned midrange tweeter such as the VK6-LCR. Paradigm also makes centers w/this design starting with the cc-190


Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs /forum/post/19578643


Why are you ignoring Kal? Get horizontal speakers with vertically aligned midrange tweeter such as the VK6-LCR. Paradigm also makes centers w/this design starting with the cc-190


Ron

Ron,


Thanks for your thoughts on this. Not trying to ignore Kal. I appreciate all his and others thoughts.


I'm just trying to figure out if the difference of bookshelf on side vs. vertical is very noticeable. And second, if MTM speaker used horizontally is substantial listening difference to bookshelf on side. Or now it looks like if MTM with vertical mid/tweeter arrangement will have major listening difference to bookshelf on side.


Thanks, for hammering home Kal's point. I picked up, "it's the best BIC has to offer", and about it being 3-way, but because where I was when I read this, I missed his point about the vertical alignment of mid and tweeter.


The Energy RC LCR that someone else mentioned has diagonal mid/tweeter arrangement so I guess that would not be as good, since it is not vertical?


Thanks again Ron and Kal, and others who have offered ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
EDIT: This posting makes less sense now. Some one else posted about using a LCR in both orientations, and Kal responded. It looks like both removed their posts, after I posted this.


I'm looking for best solution to fit in my 9" high by 32" wide speaker area. Which is probably a horizontal orientation.


If it won't noticeably hurt sound I will use bookshelf speakers on side.


If there is a great decrease in sound quality with bookshelf speakers on side, I am open to other ideas. So if MTM with vertical mid/tweeter orientation is much better than bookshelf on side, that sounds like a better, but perhaps more costly idea.


Thanks for helping,


Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 /forum/post/19578795


EDIT: This posting makes less sense now. Some one else posted about using a LCR in both orientations, and Kal responded. It looks like both removed their posts, after I posted this.


I'm looking for best solution to fit in my 9" high by 32" wide speaker area. Which is probably a horizontal orientation.


If it won't noticeably hurt sound I will use bookshelf speakers on side.


If there is a great decrease in sound quality with bookshelf speakers on side, I am open to other ideas. So if MTM with vertical mid/tweeter orientation is much better than bookshelf on side, that sounds like a better, but perhaps more costly idea.


Thanks for helping,


Jeff

Try it. Use anything you got and see if the orientation makes a difference to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/19578972


Try it. Use anything you got and see if the orientation makes a difference to you.

I just knew this suggestion was coming. My fronts are in the cabinet which had lips on top and bottom front, so the speakers only go in and out the cabinet back which requires moving the cabinet from the wall, and moving equipment from center cabinet that is connected to front and right cabinet by two shelves.


But it is a good idea, I had already thought of it, and would have done it already, if it was easier. And of course I'm dealing with one failed speaker, so could only do it with one front. I could try it with side surrounds, but they are tiny, and I'm not sure it will tell me anything. But easy to try on those.


And interested what others had found with vertical/horizontal speaker orientation, since it is extra hard for me to move front right and left speakers to vertical. Is is a very noticeable difference? Or difference most listeners would fine not very noticeable? (I could easily move center to vertical.)


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I mentioned in post above, I can't test both the left & right speakers, since one of them does not work now.


I've thought about this more, and could do three tests:


1. I could test my two tiny surrounds up front (in vertical and horizontal), although they are only 7" tall.


2. I can test my MTM center channel horizontal and vertical as well.


3. I can test my remaining good left speaker as center channel, in vertical and horizontal.


Any suggestions of test material? Movies with lots of dialog? Master & Commander might work here. Or some music?


Thanks,


Jeff
 

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Test 1 is useless as driver separation is the issue and these are too small to matter.


I would use music/voice, something consistent so that you can hear what happens when you move/turn your head a little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/19582470


Test 1 is useless as driver separation is the issue and these are too small to matter.


I would use music/voice, something consistent so that you can hear what happens when you move/turn your head a little.

I was guessing Test 1 might be not be too useful, but thought I would mention it just in case.


I measured the center to center of the two speakers in surrounds, it is about 4 inches. The same measurement in bookshelf speakers is 6". Is that big enough to worry about for side use. I guess another issue with side use is tweeter dispersion. not being equal horizontally and vertically. Would turning the tweeter 90 degrees be helpful for speaker used on it's side?


Thanks for your thoughts on music/voice selection. Forgive me, but I was a bit confused when you said "consistent so that you can hear what happens when you move/turn your head a little." I thought the test was moving the speakers 90 degrees, so I'm not sure about "move/tilt your head".
 
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