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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Discuss...


Oops, almost forgot...I like mine as accurate or flat as possible so as to establish a "baseline" in case I need to tweak them or dial them in a little. I don't like to begin with a "colored" speaker because sometimes you can't dial the coloration out. But that's just me and my ears. There are no right or wrong answer on this. It's all preference. Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion.



Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Definitely surprising to me. I would have thought listeners of the age of those in the study would have preferred exaggerated bass and highs? The outcome is good news to me though.



Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I do think there are speaker companies that will, in the name of making a "flat sounding" speaker, drop both upper and lower frequencies which makes for a boxy and rather boring sounding speaker. A flat speaker should certainly not sound boring...just accurate and clear IMHO.



Tom
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpnblues /forum/post/19540258


Discuss...


Oops, almost forgot...I like mine as accurate or flat as possible so as to establish a "baseline" in case I need to tweak them or dial them in a little. I don't like to begin with a "colored" speaker because sometimes you can't dial the coloration out. But that's just me and my ears. There are no right or wrong answer on this. It's all preference. Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion.



Tom

You can EQ anything you want actually. Its 100% your choice what curve you like. I do like manufacturers to build accurate speakers so that we are not chasing ghosts but many build a speaker voiced to their designer's own subjective tastes.


Every room has its own impact on the speakers and that is where Audyssey and products like that come into play. The more money you spend on auto EQing the more flexibility you have to set your own curves.


Here is a fun read for you
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...eo-system.html
 

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Just admit that no matter how you EQ your speakers that you will never be happy for a long period of time. It might sound great at the time but then all of a sudden you try to tweak this or change that and then your off and running again looking for that certain sound that probably will never happen....... Am I the only one who feels this way or are all of you in sound nirvana denial .......
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

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Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19541311


You can EQ anything you want actually. Its 100% your choice what curve you like. I do like manufacturers to build accurate speakers so that we are not chasing ghosts but many build a speaker voiced to their designer's own subjective tastes.


Every room has its own impact on the speakers and that is where Audyssey and products like that come into play. The more money you spend on auto EQing the more flexibility you have to set your own curves.


Here is a fun read for you
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...eo-system.html


Great post. Agree with everything you said. I've not heard any Audyssey products though. I'd like to remedy that.

But the room often has a huge effect on sound systems. Thanks for that link. Very good read.



Tom
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpnblues /forum/post/19541145


Definitely surprising to me. I would have thought listeners of the age of those in the study would have preferred exaggerated bass and highs? The outcome is good news to me though.



Tom

I was thinking that maybe age with hearing was a factor. Still seems hard to believe but I am no expert.
 

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I can't really say since I usually don't consciously notice specific colorations or whathaveyou (unless it's very exaggerated). Generally I can only say if I like a speaker's sound in general. Sometimes it might be flat, other times it might be not. I can still like both, since different doesn't always mean better/worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Originally Posted by TCARCIO /forum/post/19541399


Just admit that no matter how you EQ your speakers that you will never be happy for a long period of time. It might sound great at the time but then all of a sudden you try to tweak this or change that and then your off and running again looking for that certain sound that probably will never happen....... Am I the only one who feels this way or are all of you in sound nirvana denial .......


It's not just your imagination. I really think humidity in particular has a very noticeable influence on not only the sound system itself, but the listening environment too. Humidity fluctuates so much in the upper Midwest in the summer. I really notice how it effects the sound of my guitar amps and acoustic guitars. There may be less of an influence on speakers made of "plastics" though. However, once again, there is the effect on the listening environment. I also suspicion that our own personal hearing apparatus perceives auditory stimuli differently at any given time due to various biological (and even psychological) processes and influences...if that makes sense?

But I digress...there are very sophisticated and well informed listeners who prefer systems where the top end or bottom end are emphasized. Nothing wrong with that.


Tom
 

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I like speakers with digital x-overs with room correction & eq, so you can measure yourself to make sure you're getting a flat response in room (at least is one spot). From there you can tailor the sound to your liking.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpnblues /forum/post/19541469


It's not just your imagination. I really think humidity in particular has a very noticeable influence on not only the sound system itself, but the listening environment too. Humidity fluctuates so much in the upper Midwest in the summer. I really notice how it effects the sound of my guitar amps and acoustic guitars. There may be less of an influence on speakers made of "plastics" though. However, once again, there is the effect on the listening environment. I also suspicion that our own personal hearing apparatus perceives auditory stimuli differently at any given time due to various biological (and even psychological) processes and influences...if that makes sense?

But I digress...there are very sophisticated and well informed listeners who prefer systems where the top end or bottom end are emphasized. Nothing wrong with that.


Tom

I think it makes perfect sense. I don't know how many times I spend time setting things up with Audyssey and then I listen the next day and say to myself that something is off. Then I am off to the races trying to tweak things again. I think it is just a vicious circle on which we can never find that perfect sound we all chase. I really think it only exists at certain times and is not a constant. Am I nuts or do other people go through the same thing? Flat sounds good then again maybe not as good as Audyssey but then again maybe, maybe , maybe, It really drives me nuts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpnblues /forum/post/19540258


Discuss...


Oops, almost forgot...I like mine as accurate or flat as possible so as to establish a "baseline" in case I need to tweak them or dial them in a little. I don't like to begin with a "colored" speaker because sometimes you can't dial the coloration out. But that's just me and my ears. There are no right or wrong answer on this. It's all preference. Just thought it would make for an interesting discussion.



Tom

You correctly answered your own question. A baseline accuracy is preferable, and you can season to taste witn an EQ, or compensate for room anomalies. Some drivers have peculiarities that can't be "dialed out" as you correctly say. I've heard speakers that have been EQed flat in a good room, and they still sound like ass.


But if anyone prefers a speaker with a certain sonic personality, have at it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO /forum/post/19541399


Just admit that no matter how you EQ your speakers that you will never be happy for a long period of time. It might sound great at the time but then all of a sudden you try to tweak this or change that and then your off and running again looking for that certain sound that probably will never happen....... Am I the only one who feels this way or are all of you in sound nirvana denial .......

I've had the same three speakers up front for seven years now, and I still have no intention of changing them, even though I don't pay for my speakers. The room is treated and tuned, and I'm using very slight EQ to get a flat response from 18 Hz-40 kHz. The system gives me a very clear window into the program material, and I'd rather listen to music and movies than "speakers," per se. Please notice that I used a Latin phrase because I am pretentious, et al, et cetera. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/19541588


...I'd rather listen to music and movies than "speakers," per se. Please notice that I used a Latin phrase because I am pretentious, et al, et cetera. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Rerum pars quaerit Iesum, partem magis quaerit bass!


Ron
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/19541588


I've had the same three speakers up front for seven years now, and I still have no intention of changing them, even though I don't pay for my speakers. The room is treated and tuned, and I'm using very slight EQ to get a flat response from 18 Hz-40 kHz. The system gives me a very clear window into the program material, and I'd rather listen to music and movies than "speakers," per se. Please notice that I used a Latin phrase because I am pretentious, et al, et cetera. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Maybe thats my problem? I critisize my speakers to much. Don't get me wrong I love my 801's but I just don't seem to ever be happy with the integration between music and movies and I find myself changing and tweaking all the time. It drives me nuts.......
 

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Harman is not the only orginization to study this. The NRC of Canada also has extensive studies on this. In a nutshell people prefer an accurate speaker. It is pretty easy to explain. Let's say a co-worker has a cold or sore throat. Most people easily notice the change in his or her voice because it sounds different than normal. This is what a colored speaker does. With certain material it might make it sound good but it isn't going to sound natural if you are familiar with the material.


Typically, you want the source of your sound to be as accurate as possible and make any adjustments for preferences or the room with other techniques like EQ or room treatments. To get the BEST performance out of any good speaker you have to correct the room and make sure the speaker is being used in its intended application, an often overlooked aspect of getting good sound.


EQ is the final tweak and can't overcome a bad room or bad set up. Because no matter what type or how much EQ you use, it can't overcome physics. Sound is still going to hit the walls, ceiling, floor and various objects in your room and no EQ is going to stop it. EQ can improve a bad room but to maximize performance make sure you have proper placement of seating, speaker, sub(s) and acoustic treatments before you EQ.


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL /forum/post/19542090


Harman is not the only orginization to study this. The NRC of Canada also has extensive studies on this.

Bob

Not a surprise that both Sean Olive and Floyd Toole came to Harman from NRC.


NRC has done some amazing things for loudspeaker design.


Ron
 

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The Harman angle is interesting, have you read the processor study they did which completely contradicts the accuracy thing, but that leads to another observation:


Until the recording engineers of the world could get their crap together how can anyone be sure what is accurate and what is not, and does that not leave the accuracy argument a moot point with little substance. The entire system has to be accounted for which includes the recording which, imo, varies considerably especially in the ever important bass/upper bass region which has drastic consequences on the balance of the entire recording. This, imo, is one of the primary reasons most are constantly futzing with their stuff which likely is in an effort to make the crappy recordings sound as balanced and musical as the good ones. Chasing ones tail.
 
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