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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
heres my problem. I bought the 26" sharp LC26D40U and to my dismay, it is a ghosting PoS with banding problems. that babys goin back to the store.


Im reading reviews on the Samsung LN-S2641D, and I read it also ghosts.


I also read that the Sony 26" KDL26S2000 ghosts like a mofo as well.



does a quality, non ghosting TV inthis size range exist? I will be ever grateful to anyone who tells me about one.
 

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Part of the problem may be that you can notice ghosting more than the average person. I'm in the same boat, and it's a bummer. I find myself noticing it and focusing on it so much that it starts driving me crazy. After experiencing ghosting on my last LCD, I even started noticing a bit of motion blur on my CRT TV.


All that being said, I'm sure you'll be able to find something you're satisfied with if you spend some time on these forums reading others' feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Originally Posted by vegenigma /forum/post/0


Part of the problem may be that you can notice ghosting more than the average person. I'm in the same boat, and it's a bummer. I find myself noticing it and focusing on it so much that it starts driving me crazy. After experiencing ghosting on my last LCD, I even started noticing a bit of motion blur on my CRT TV.


All that being said, I'm sure you'll be able to find something you're satisfied with if you spend some time on these forums reading others' feedback.

I just really love this sharp and I want it to be perfect. I was watching Seabiscuit on ABC HD w/ its built in QAM tuner and HOLY COW! it looked AMAZING! vivid colors, inky blacks, bright whites. but this ghosting is driving me nuts. Im going to get the thing replaced and if that doesnt work, im taking it back because I just cant cope with the ghosting, especially since I game a lot on it
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Originally Posted by HTSteve /forum/post/0


I am also in the market 2-3 months for a 32" TV. As far as I can tell, no one is complaining about the JVC units. Panasonic looked good as well when I saw it at CC.

The panasonics are nice, but their 26 incher only has 1 Component and 1 HDMI, which I think is not enough for me
 

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I pretty sure there is no lcd out there that wont ghost.... 8ms is long ways from 21ms and i still see ghosting with 8ms lns3251d samsung..... only thing i can barely see ghosting on is the dlp tvs seeing they like 4ms or somthing but it still ghosts just much less noticable Sed tvs are said to fix this problem but who know when this will be out
 

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but I would like to know this too I toying with notion to bring back my lns3251d cause the ghosting its very annyoing and I went lcd to save room..... doing it while gaming is annoying as it is but it does it while watch tv to which is more annyoing. which is shame seen the lcd has hell of a nice picture
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhiero /forum/post/0


heres my problem. I bought the 26" sharp LC26D40U and to my dismay, it is a ghosting PoS with banding problems. that babys goin back to the store.


Im reading reviews on the Samsung LN-S2641D, and I read it also ghosts.


I also read that the Sony 26" KDL26S2000 ghosts like a mofo as well.



does a quality, non ghosting TV inthis size range exist? I will be ever grateful to anyone who tells me about one.

I ma very happy with my olevia 332h, you will have no problem finding it on the net for less than 650.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhiero /forum/post/0


heres my problem. I bought the 26" sharp LC26D40U and to my dismay, it is a ghosting PoS with banding problems. that babys goin back to the store.


Im reading reviews on the Samsung LN-S2641D, and I read it also ghosts.


I also read that the Sony 26" KDL26S2000 ghosts like a mofo as well.



does a quality, non ghosting TV inthis size range exist? I will be ever grateful to anyone who tells me about one.

The Samsung LN-S2651D is a great TV and I have not seen ghosting on any of the many 2651s I have seen. CompUSA has them for only $799. Check it out.
 

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I like my new Panasonic TC-32LX60 so much that I'm not very concerned about LCD enhancements unveiled at CES recently. This is a great TV and the Bears-Saints playoff game on Fox HD OTA right now is perfect. No motion blur. Color is vibrant. They're on sale at CC.
 

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All LCD's keep each frame lit for an entire 16.7ms. 1/60th second = 0.0167 seconds. With screens that have a response time quicker than that, you're not seeing blur from the screen not being quick enough. What you're seeing is a phenomenon usually known as "sample and hold motion smearing". This is due to the LCD screen holding each frame on screen until the next frame shows up, so when your eye glides smoothly across the screen to track a moving object, each still frame actually ends up tracing a smeared path across your retina.


Manufacturers are aware of this issue, and many are working on a solution to it. One solution is to use an LED backlight which is rapidly pulsed with a single quick flash of light for each frame of video, so that each frame makes a very nice distinct impression on the retina. CRT has always been like that, which is why motion is so fluid and clear on it. But this is also why CRT's can seem to flicker or shimmer, and 60hz LCD's with this kind of stroboscopic backlight will likely have perceptible flicker too. Just a trade off for the clear motion.


Another solution is a "120hz" screen, which flashes up a frame of video, then just a black screen, then the next frame and so on, alternating blank black with the video frames. This will cut the sample and hold smear effect down by half. Though it also wastes a lot of backlight.


A still better idea combines these two, and adds in a fancy kind of temporal interpolation that analyzes a series of frames and figures out what's moving what way, then uses that information to synthesize the missing frames inbetween the 60hz frames to "upscale" the 60hz video to 120hz. The 120hz video would then be shown along with the strobing LED backlight for some pretty damn smooth looking motion, and no flicker trade off.


To sum it up, you'll be waiting a year or two for this new tech to hit the stores if you really can't stand the way they perform right now.
 

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This must be indicative of the smaller LCD's or certain people as I've never seen this effect on my 45" w/
 

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The Samsungs actually do have motion blur a bit worse than most other TVs do. I have seen it in stores, but more importantly, I have compared it on my hockey video game which on the replay screen shows rotating black triangles on the white ice surface. And compared to the Toshiba and the JVC I have right now, it definately leaves more of a trail behind the triangles (the JVC andToshiba don't really show a trail, While the Samsung shows a faint one). Unfortunately the Toshiba and JVC have other flaws that make it a game of pros and cons
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabit256 /forum/post/0


All LCD's keep each frame lit for an entire 16.7ms. 1/60th second = 0.0167 seconds. With screens that have a response time quicker than that, you're not seeing blur from the screen not being quick enough. What you're seeing is a phenomenon usually known as "sample and hold motion smearing". This is due to the LCD screen holding each frame on screen until the next frame shows up, so when your eye glides smoothly across the screen to track a moving object, each still frame actually ends up tracing a smeared path across your retina.


Manufacturers are aware of this issue, and many are working on a solution to it. One solution is to use an LED backlight which is rapidly pulsed with a single quick flash of light for each frame of video, so that each frame makes a very nice distinct impression on the retina. CRT has always been like that, which is why motion is so fluid and clear on it. But this is also why CRT's can seem to flicker or shimmer, and 60hz LCD's with this kind of stroboscopic backlight will likely have perceptible flicker too. Just a trade off for the clear motion.


Another solution is a "120hz" screen, which flashes up a frame of video, then just a black screen, then the next frame and so on, alternating blank black with the video frames. This will cut the sample and hold smear effect down by half. Though it also wastes a lot of backlight.


A still better idea combines these two, and adds in a fancy kind of temporal interpolation that analyzes a series of frames and figures out what's moving what way, then uses that information to synthesize the missing frames inbetween the 60hz frames to "upscale" the 60hz video to 120hz. The 120hz video would then be shown along with the strobing LED backlight for some pretty damn smooth looking motion, and no flicker trade off.

To sum it up, you'll be waiting a year or two for this new tech to hit the stores if you really can't stand the way they perform right now.

Agreed. The current technology still has the 'bugs' to work out.

OLED should change all that. Sony says

The 4ms/120 hz looks like the stop gap solution in the meantime. My best guess is these will be found on the 1080p displays. Expect to pay for the priviledge.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaul4820 /forum/post/0


I ma very happy with my olevia 332h, you will have no problem finding it on the net for less than 650.

I second the recommendation for the Olevia 332h - great performance for the price. No tuner, however, so only suitable for cable/satellite or other setup with an external tuner.
 
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