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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought this would make an interesting subject.


I actually use a Panamax power conditioner in my kids family room system for surge protection and sequential power on. I'm afraid that system hasn't been tuned subjectively, uses inexpensive ocmponents and my philosophy in that system has been not to worry about how it sounds, anyway. So I really haven't tried to determine if it does anything to the sound, because frankly, I've got to use something for that system, anyway, whether a power strip or a Panamax.


For you audiophiles who have actually used a Panamax in your system, have you compared how your system sounds using it vs not using it?

Please tell us. Thanks.
 

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No power conditioner is going to give you sonic improvement in reality.


All a power conditioner does it act like a low-pass and high-pass filter. Does a low-pass filter to remove any rf frequencies that the NM-B electrical wire might pick up and does a high-pass filter for any tv or radio frequences.


What you're left with is a near perfect 60hz single-phase sinewave. Also uses its own grounding mechanism so that you may use two blade components without introducing ground loops.


The cool thing about Panamax is that it actually works when it comes to surge protection. Then it works again and again then again. Most other products (like Monster Power) just go poof into a ball of smoke, then you need to purchase another one.


It also helps to have a 5 million dollar insurance policy with a Panamax.


If you're completely insane and must tweak every last thing, you could purchase an expensive capacitor which basically draws double the current of what you actually use in order to compensate for under/over voltages and keep a perfectly steady 60hz single-phase sinewave. That's like $4K though. For $4K you can buy a 1998 NEC XG-135 8" CRT =)
 

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Based on my experience (which is quite extensive, I'd say, because the lousy quality of the AC power where I live has forced to try nearly all power conditioner/protectors out there), I can say with all honesty that, so far, the ONLY two AC power enhancement products that have REALLY improved the audio and video of my system are the PS Audio P300 Power Plants and the Richard Grays 1200S "unconditioner" unit.


Units from Panamax, Adcom, Furman, API, and others provided no benefit to my eyes or ears.


For surge protection, IMHO, the VERY BEST units out there are the ones from Brickwall. In my system, they provide a slight benefit audio-wise, too. But I use these units mainly because of their outstanding surge protection. I can tell you that because I can bet that where I live is a place worthy to ingress to the Guiness Book of Records under the department of "Worst AC Power Quality Out There".


Just my humble opinion.


J.V.
 

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Rohan, you're making quite a name for yourself in these parts. Not a *nice* name, mind you, but a name nonetheless. HTF is always looking for trolls, so there's always that option.
 

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Rohan: I do believe that good manners in no way can harm the skills/knowledege you might have on EE matters, don't you?


Someone once said: "An expert is a person who progressively knows more things about less things". Yes, I am inclined to believe that you are such an expert on Schrödinger or Maxwell's equations; which, it seems, precludes your having the slightest clue on the basic A-B-C of human relationships.


J.V.
 

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It's for your own good; go ahead and believe a Panamax will increase your soundstage, create deep tight bass and more focused high-end.


I'm blunt and slightly arrogant; comes with the field. When I grow older I'll become more refined and passive, until then I will assert myself and offer sound technical advice.


The way I interact with you is moot if you walk out and learn something.
 

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Rohan:


Yes, you bet, I did learn something: It is not worthy to listen or deal with vacuous arrogants.


I'm an agnostic, but if memory serves well, I think I remember The Bible advising in its Book of Proverbs to treat arrogants like a stupid, so that he/she realizes he/she is not wise.


If you want your technical advise(?) to be taken into account by anybody, just bear in mind that more flies are attracted by a drop of honey than by a barrel of vinegar. (Oh, yes, perhaps you are a balsamic vinegar, after all).


Enjoy yourself your low pH!


J.V.
 

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Father please forgive me, for now I have realized my wrong ways and vow to never return from the darkness which I came.


Please give the courage to be wise and caring; let me hold the hands of my neighbors in peace and in trust. Let me florish and be free like a delicate flower on the side of a hill swaying in the warm spring air.


Amen.
 

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Everyone bow to Rohan as he knows all! If you don't believe it, just ask him!


The question was:
Quote:
For you audiophiles who have actually used a Panamax in your system, have you compared how your system sounds using it vs not using it?

Please tell us. Thanks.
If your system sound the same with/without, so be it. Some people subjectively think their system is better one way or the other. Why must you chastise, redicule, and belittle them when they think so?


No one bad mounths you, your theories, or your opinions...only the way you present them.
 

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Lets talk about the scientific data (or lack thereof) behind everyone's subjective opinions regarding snake oil related products. If we find that we are lacking any scientific data, let's make an effort to aquire some.


This could only reinforce or break subjective opinions, thus turning them into an objective analyse.


(Moderator note: Do not use the term "snake oil" again, as if you read the forum Rules to which you signed up as a member, use of that term is against forum rules.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The forum Administrator is aware of Rohan's repeated violations of forum rules and he will deal with it. Please, folks, do not respond in kind. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you want to learn about scientific tech data and power conditioning, I recommend you read reviews at the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website, in particular reviews of the PS Audio Power Plants.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bruzonsky
If you want to learn about scientific tech data and power conditioning, I recommend you read reviews at the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity website, in particular reviews of the PS Audio Power Plants.
Please describe to use the objective steps you took to verify any performance increase as a result of the power conditioner you installed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Rohan, in another thread you were the one who said you use a Panamax.

I only asked folks who use them if they've heard any subjective difference in doing so. I have no objective data re Panamax and I'm not interested in arguing objective data on power conditioning in general, that's not the topic of this thread. I have read reviews and frankly, some of them have no objective data re better sonics, some of them like re PS Audio Power Plants, the Secrets reviews tell it much better than I can. Just because you buy a power conditioner doesn't automatically mean it will improve your sonics. Both objective info as well as subjective demo may be helpful in each case to determine.
 

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Doug,


Would your take be that PS Audio PowerPlants would do nothing to help a system's sound then? What are your thoughts on the multiwave capability?
 

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Any surge protector can help the sound. If the power is damaging the sound and the device slows that. I've had $7 protectors remove problems from a TV.


The difference is not an improvement, it is stopping damage caused by an outside problem. In this case, improper electricity.


If your electricity is perfect, than Rohan's comments about surge protectors should be correct.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Rohan



Please describe to use the objective steps you took to verify any performance increase as a result of the power conditioner you installed.
This is in my in-laws house some time ago:


1) Listen to tape made on system some time before (system consists of VCR, TV). Hear volume changing drastically. No measurements taken, but seemed to be variation of at least 10db. Voices go from acceptable to almost inaudible.


2) Listen to TV. Volume exhibits the same problem.


3) Wonder WTH is going on. Go home to listen in Dolby Pro Logic instead. Never borrow tapes from in-laws.


4) Months later notice that the TV and other stuff is plugged into a messy fire hazard of extension cords, etc. Resolve to change it. (TV/VCR still exhibit volume changes)


5) Purchase $7 surge protector at Target, install.


6) No volume changes since in new tapes and live viewing on the same TV & VCR. (note that intent of purchase was to get rid of dangerous rat's nest of wire, but audible effects were immediately apparent)


7) Surge protector dies after a year or so. (odd, never had that happen before) Volume changes are back on live TV.


8) Purchase $9 surge protector (WTF, prices up??) at Target, install.


9) No more volume changes.


Somewhere in there the VCR died prematurely as well. Probably soon after the first strip went in. Problem?: power supply.


My guess: Panamax might be able to help in this situation as well. If I feel like spending 5 times as much, maybe I'll try it next time.
 

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Just as long as we're clear that surge projectors and filtrations do not boaden the sound stage or any other mystical improvements.


Now if you have a ground loop or a lot of interference in the electrical cable, that's another issue.


We need to establish a reference point to judge changes to determine improvements. That reference point will be to rid of any problems in the AC wiring first. We want a clean 60hz single phase sinewave. What I mean by this is that we need to run it througha high pass filter to get rid of the rf frequencies then run it through a low pass filter to get rid of the radio and television frequencies.


From this point on, a $5,000 surge projector / filter will not make any improvements.


We could say however, that a power regenerator could make a small improvement technically. We would be producing a perfect 60hz single phase sinewave at exactlly 120.0V potential. On the down side we use twice the current than we use. So figure your electrical bill will go up by 40%.
 
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