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Discussion Starter #1
Winegard and Antennacraft have both discontinued their 5 & 10 element VHF-Hi yagi antennas. I was planning on using a combo 10 element and Solid Signal HBU 91 on a few installs I have lined up (due to gain, cost and compactness compared to a full combo).

To my knowledge, nobody else makes a 10 element yagi save for an MATV companies (who are certainly outside of the price range). Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 

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If you can do a DIY project you can build my 12 element LPDA described in my link below. I built it to replace the commercial ones because I needed higher front to back ratio.
 

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Antennas-Direct still makes the C5, which provides 7.0 to 7.6 dBi Raw Gain in Hi-VHF Band:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/C5%20technical%20data%20with%20uhf.pdf
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/C5-Clearstream-5-vhf-uhf-long-range-outdoor-DTV-antenna.html

RCA ANT-751 provides about 1 dB lower Raw Gain in Hi-VHF Band.

For even higher Hi-VHF Band Gain, you could use Antennacraft HBU-44 or HBU-55 and use a UHF/VHF Coupler if you prefer to ALSO use a separate, Higher Gain UHF Antenna:
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasHBU.html

Same approach can be used with Winegard Combo Antennas....
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Hi-VHF Hourglass-Loop with 15 Reflector Rods is a simple DIY Project that provides as much Gain as the W-G YA17-13:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops/hivhfhourglassloop

And of course, I have posted some OPTIMIZED DIY Hi-VHF Yagi designs with even higher Raw Gain on the UPPER Channels, which tend to be simpler to build with only ONE Boom:
22-El FD-Yagi, Boom-Length = 217-in (18-ft), Raw Gain = 12.5 to 15.2 to 13.9 dBi:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis/hivhf22elfdyagiopt
12-El FD-Yagi, 107-in, Raw Gain = 10.0 to 13.1 dBi, or 10.0 to 14.0 dBi if 138-in:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis/hivhf12elfdyagiopt

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BTW: I just uploaded a Parametric (Sigma-Tau) Study of the DIY Twin-Boom (Layered) LPDA for the UHF Band, illustrating that a 13 or 15-Element Pair LPDA was about as big as is reasonable to build....with only minor Gain increase as more Element Pairs are added. The Spread Sheet contains ALL of the Build Dimensions for each and every data point you see in the various Graphs. To RESCALE for Hi-VHF Band, make ALL Dimensions (including Element Radius) THREE TIMES BIGGER:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/zigzaglpa/uhflpda/uhf7ellpdawedgelayered

In an LPDA, "Sigma" defines how close the two largest Elements are Separated and "Tau" defines the Ratio of Adjacent Element Spacings and Lengths as they shrink toward the shorter Feedpoint Elements, with the Longest Length starting at about 1/2-wavelength for the lowest Frequency in the Band, as described here:
http://www.salsburg.com/Log-Periodic.pdf



For various 7-Element Pair LPDA designs, I plotted the Max Raw Gain attainable for various CHOICES of the LPDA design parameter "Sigma" [Optimum was about 0.165), using nikiml's Optimization Scripts to find the "best" value for "Tau" and Boom-Separation, finding the "Sweet Spot" for a 7-Element Pair LPDA design. Note that the Boom-Length is a LINEAR function of "Sigma". I next plan to do a similar Parametric Study for a 13-Element Pair LPDA and will eventually get around to doing a "FLAT" Element LPDA Study so we don't have to "guess" an "equivalent" Radius for a Round Element.



 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks guys. I'm interested in straight out-of-the-box solutions, not something I'm going to have to take the time to DIY. I'm trying to make a business out of this, not tinkering around myself. Otherwise I certainly would be building my own stuff. It's just kind of a shame when no company wants to make a full line of antenna products. There are plenty of applications for VHF-Hi antennas, some markets with VHF-Lo stations that would be best served by Lo yagis. Winegard even discontinued their FM traps. It's not like FM interference and 2nd harmonic distortion of preamps just magically went away with the advent of DTV.
 

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Wondering if Winegard will bring back a dedicated VHF-Hi since Antennacraft is gone? Seems like there would be enough sales to make a profit if the product is priced right. VHF-Hi is not going away as long as so many are ADDICTED to their smart phones.:eek:
 

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Unless you can till find some Antennacraft units in stock somewhere (try Summit Source), the Antennas Direct ClearStream 5 is the only game for an out of the box 7-13 antenna.

Otherwise, you're left with using a combo antenna.
 

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I was planning on using a combo 10 element and Solid Signal HBU 91 on a few installs I have lined up (due to gain, cost and compactness...
How difficult would it be to remove the UHF section from a combo if compactness is important? Are there any combos that would make this mod easy?

In order to keep the same feed point, you could remove the UHF corner reflector and most of the UHF directors. You might need to move the bracket on the boom that attaches to the mast, because the center of gravity shift.
 

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I've never seen any models for the HBU-xx series of Antennas and no one has taken the TIME to post some measurements....so we don't know for SURE what happens when the UHF Corner Reflector Elements are hacked off...but FWIW, it made NO difference when I ran Ken Nist's model for the R-S VU-90 with and without it's Corner Reflector (he didn't bother to include UHF Elements). And feel free to hack off the small UHF Elements to make it a bit smaller.
 

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I've never seen any models for the HBU-xx series of Antennas and no one has taken the TIME to post some measurements....so we don't know for SURE what happens when the UHF Corner Reflector Elements are hacked off...but FWIW, it made NO difference when I ran Ken Nist's model for the R-S VU-90 with and without it's Corner Reflector (he didn't bother to include UHF Elements). And feel free to hack off the small UHF Elements to make it a bit smaller.
I installed the HBU55 at my dads a several years back, with the flying debris the a couple of the reflectors broke off within a few months, he said he never noted any difference & they are in the fringes (30 miles) from the transmitters.
 

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And of course, I have posted some OPTIMIZED DIY Hi-VHF Yagi designs with even higher Raw Gain on the UPPER Channels, which tend to be simpler to build with only ONE Boom:

At first glance that would seem to be true but in reality it is not. I built a couple of K6STI broadband yagis and he said the elements need to be insulated from the boom. That complicates construction. I ended up using acrylic cubes as insulators in the attached image. For each element there are 4 holes to drill in the cube and one to tap and two holes in the boom. In the dual boom LPDA there are 4 holes to drill plus 2 to enlarge. It's basically a wash. In either case you need a drill press to drill the holes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks for the input guys. Doing a little bit more research, I found that Antennacraft is of course a wholly owned subsidiary of Radio Shack which is (as we all know) bankrupt. The Antennacraft factory was sold and all the capital has been liquidated. They're gone. Period.

Which eliminated my next option - a HBU55. I'm quite literally left with the Winegard 7698 for long range reception. Not only do they have 3db less gain on UHF than a 91XG but I've seen more than a few cases of the UHF director section of the 8200 simply break off (under snow load I assume).

I found one antenna that could work for VHF-Hi: http://www.xinxidi.com/inquiry.asp?id=7374 It can be found on wholesale sites like alibaba but I have yet to find it available for retail purchase.
 

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mattdp: If you Google HBU-33/44/55 you'll find that they are still readily found in stock at Summit Source, eBay and a few other sources...I even found one HBU-55 on Amazon.

Calaveras: Passive (Reflector & Director) Elements can (and in MOST CASES ARE) mounted either Directly on TOP or THRU a Metallic Boom using either special mounting brackets (available from Amateur Radio Antenna stores) or even a simple pair of rivets. When you DO this, a "Boom Correction" needs to be applied for UHF Antennas...and is usually small enough to ignore in Hi-VHF Antennas. Of course, if using a Non-Metallic Boom (e.g. PVC or Fibreglass), NO Boom Correction is needed:
See the Intro Section in my YAGI Antenna Folder:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis

BTW: Due to the close proximity of the "insulators" you show above, if used in a UHF Antenna, some Boom Correction should be applied, DERATED for the distance from the Boom, bearing in mind that Boom Correction is much more important for Narrowband Antennas than Broadband TV Antennas which can readily tolerate considerable mis-tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The 6E512F looks to be a great replacement for the Y-5-7-13.

What would happen if one were to stack two of those vertically and stick a 91xg (or an 8bay) in the middle?

Slightly OT, but I thought you'd appreciate this holl_ands. I made one of your VHF-Hi 2-bay antennas the other year. 1 story attic and it's got a solid lock on two VHF's at 60mi.
 

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Stack Away....but try to keep as much Metal-To-Metal distance as possible between adjacent Antennas....preferably 4+ feet if you can....anything less will affect the F/B & F/R Ratios much more than the Gain & SWR:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/stacked

Yup...2-Bay Bowties also work in Hi-VHF Band.....without Reflector, provides about 7.6 to 10.0 dBi with Bi-Directional Pattern....and is very simple to build....although I would build a simple PVC Rectangle just outside the 2-Bay (with a Horizontal Bar in Middle to attach Feedpoint) and tie-wrap a Loop at the end of each Whisker to the Take-Apart Frame (no glue required on VERTICAL sections):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/hivhf2bay

And adding a set of Reflector Rods adds another 3 dB, or about as much as Y10-7-13:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/hivhf2bayreflrods
 

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Any concerns about stacking horizontally? I have a CM4228HD in my attic and I'm planning on mounting a DIY hourglass high-vhf next to it.
I've built Holl_and's hourglass (7 reflector rods) and lent it to a neighbor to try. He said it pulled in channel 11 (physical) without a problem, plus the UHF channels we're both interested in. It'll be a few weeks before I'll get a chance to add it to my attic and I'd like to know if I need to separate the CM4228HD and the hourglass by any significant distance (side-by-side).
 
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