[Knuck]

There have been numerous threads on the 8500 but it does not appear that anyone who actually owns the card has offered their impressions.


If anyone does own this card, please tell us what you think.

 

[Phil Olson]

I bought one to try out. It comes with a VGA connector and a DVI connector with a VGA dongle. So far, I have not been able to get both to work, (They're supposed to), nor have I gotten the DVI one to work at all.


I can setup a system on the dongle and after the Win98 splash screen it goes dead and the normal VGA adapter is the only one active.


The board does show more color depth and a slightly crisper image but I have a major problem with it.


I am trying to drive a D-ILA with it and it is REALLY noisy. It screws up the 'picture perfect' phase so that the picture is, though better in one respect, much worse in another.


CRT owners may not see this, but anyone with a D-ILA will cringe. It really kills D-Scaler since it is normally dealing with noisy sources.


If anyone knows a trick of how to get the DVI out to work as default, let me know.


If using the DVI out does not improve the noise issue, it's going back.


Note: My Elsa Gladiac GTS-2 is, by comparison, rock solid.


Phil

 

[Aaron Oz]

Well, we bought day before yesterday to do some a-b tests against a Geforce2 MX. We have a nice extron RGBHV switcher box, and we're using a Madrigal MP9 for the projector.


Well... it's the overall differences that count. Overall, the PQ is a bit cleaner, a bit more detailed and has slightly better colors (mostly saturation in reds). The differences are subtle, but when you get to this level of quality, differences will be offering diminishing returns on investments.


We did notice that the 8500 video had the tendency to 'jump' or shift in subtle ways, but only when looking at a paused frame.


Oz

 

[Phil Olson]

Oz,


What was your display device? I don't know what an MP9 is?


If it's a D-ILA, did you have it set up for Mark Rejorns 'pixel perfect' timings.


That's where it's painfully obvious.


Just curious,

Phil


P.S. Were you able to get the DVI output to work? If so, how?

 

[Aaron Oz]

MP9 is a 9" CRT PJ. It's the Marquee 9500 LC with a few tweaks performed by Madrigal. Arguably one of the best CRT's available today. Retail is about $65K.


We did NOT try the DVI output yet. I'm heading back to do more testing today, so we might dable with it. I'm also going to buy a Radeon VE, and we'll A-B the Radeon8500 against the RadeonVE today too.


Oz

 

[Aaron Oz]

Well, I spent two hours comparing the 8500 to a VE on the MP9 CRT projector. At first it appeared that the 8500 had betting colors (ie more saturation), but after tweaking the colors on the VE slightly, the cards were indistinguishable. There was that small bit of video jumping we noticed on the 8500 in a still frame, which wasn't noticed in the VE. I'm not sure if it's significant or not.


My take on this issue? Save $200 and use a VE for DVD-only playback. And yes, the VE/8500 with the ATI player does show an advantage over the GeforceX/WinDVD combo, as sorry as I am to admit. Some people will barely notice much, however it was pretty easy for me to see that the ATI/VE was simply more pleasing to watch, with more depth and better color saturation.


The REAL issue lies in the comparison of the VE to an Interpolator Gold. But that in-itself deserves its own topic, and I ain't gonna write about it this late.


Oz

 

[nijel]

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil Olson If anyone knows a trick of how to get the DVI out to work as default, let me know.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Phil


I'm using 8500 connected to LP 350 DVI port and it works.The picture is very stable no any flicking the colors are better and the synchronization time is very short.

Make sure the Plug and Play in 8500 monitor tab and in DVI display are enabled. There is a Plug and Play option on and off in LP 350 menu. If it is off the 8500 does not detect a DVI connection and you can't switch the DVI monitor on.

Once you get video make sure both VGA and DVI monitors are set as a primary displays if you want to get overlay video for DVD to works on the both displays.Thare is no overlay video on the monitor set as a secondary one.

That's it.


Good Luck!

 

[jxo]

Are you able to output a component signal directly off the 8500?

 

[Phil Olson]

Oz,


That's what I thought, you would likely not see the noise on a CRT since it doesn't sync up to a pixel clock.


Thanks anyway!


Nijel,


The problem is that the 8500 is not detecting a device on the DVI so it stubbornly refuses to turn on. If I hook up a TV to the S-video, it finds it and allows me to turn it on. So I assume that if I can get the DVI port to 'see' something out there, it'll work.


Have you tried to get it to work just with the DVI using the VGA dongle? I couldn't get that to work at all.


If you say that turning off plug and play will do the trick, I'll give it a try. If that doesn't do it, it's going back.


(mounting soapbox)


I wonder how many returns ATI gets vs GeForce? My bet is 10 to 1 or greater. I really wish that they would get a clue and hire better people.


When you see a post on the GeForce products 90% of the time it's 'how to I tweak it for max performance'. When you see a post for Radeon, 90% of the time it's 'How do I get this [email protected]#$% software to work.


They really must be succeeding despite themselves.


(stepping off soapbox),

Phil

 

[Phil Olson]

OK,


I tried turning off PNP on the second monitor but it still doesn't 'see' anything out there so I can't select it.


Anyone have a hack for getting the DVI port turned on when it doesn't recognize a second monitor?


I'll contact ATI support, maybe I am missing something obvious.


Phil

 

[nijel]

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil Olson Have you tried to get it to work just with the DVI using the VGA dongle? I couldn't get that to work at all. If you say that turning off plug and play will do the trick, I'll give it a try. If that doesn't do it, it's going back. (Phil

Phil

I nave not tried DVI to VGA dongle because I wanted just DVI.

Plug and Play has to be turned ON in the Display device's menu(i.e. monitor , FP etc.). Like I said my LP 350 has a option in control menu ''Plug and Play-ON or OFF".When it is turned OFF the DVI in 8500's Display tab is inactivated and I can't switch DVI Out on. When ''Plug and Play' is turned ON the DVI in 8500's Display tab is activated and I can switch DVI Out on. And that's what I do. And it's works.

Today I've tried to output some custom HDTV resolutions from DVI to the FP using PowerStrip but I couldn't get it to work. I'm getting virtual desktop. Probably the FP's DVI doesn't accept this kind of resolutions.The 8500's DVI head seems to output them. I'll try the VGA port next time. And one more thing. I can't get the DVI and VGA heads to work in same time whit PowerStrip.I'm getting video on the primary display and a blue screen on the secondary one.The Display Tab shows both DVI an VGA turned on but the panel is inactive. And to get both displays to work again I have to close PowerStrip, disconnect blue screen display, restart Windows, connect the display again , restart Windows and turn on the second display in Display Tab.

BTW I'm running Windows ME.

 

[Phil Olson]

Nijel,


I've tried PNP both ways. The problem is that I don't have a PNP monitor. I contacted ATI and they gave me a list of things to do. I'm doubtful, but I'll try them anyway just in case.


Thanks,

Phil

 

[KBK]

I now have a 8500 card myself, and will be looking at beating on it (just got it an hour ago!). I have no choice, as I don't have VGA capacity on my set up, as far as connectos goes So, no simple swaps for me. I can check that the card woks on another system, but the first thing I have to do is remove the VGA connector, just to get connectivity. The filters wil probably br removed before the card is even tried once.


It will be used on a Vision 3X equivalent (or better)Marquee 8000 CRT PJ. (non-LC).


I run at 1920x1200, so removal of filters is VITAL. Just to check the effect for folks, I have just decided to run the unit stock for a day, just to report back my findings on the effects of the filters at this high scanning number. i just remembered... i do still have a RGBHV input on the PJ. Now, I just have to find a VGA to RGB cable. I havea spare somewhere...


So, phil, I am now looking directly at the card in question.

 

[doody]

i have an 8500 driving a Pioneer PDP at NR (1280x768) via DVI. no complaints.


no component out on the 8500, though i think the 8500DV will allow for that. you could always dongle-ize the vga out to RGBHV i guess.


doody.

 

[kyungkim]

the component out aspect of the 8500 will be addressed withe 8500dv version with a dvi to component dongle.


Some trouble waters ahead for the dv version it seems, read this article. Anandtech 8500dv preview interview


It requires a power input on the card in the form of a floppy ps to power the firewire ports. I think they are having trouble sending regular agp data and firewire data over the agp bus. Im geting the heeby geebies on how badly ati will fu(k up the driver support for something that complex... christ they cant get driver support for their regular cards.


Heres a key quote....
Quote:

What happened to the HDTV decoder that was supposed to have been implemented on the All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500DV? It is clearly visible in the pre-release diagrams but not mentioned as a feature in their release notes.

Quote:

The decoder is there, it is simply not used. The demand for it is simply not great enough. There is a need for a front end for the decoder before it can be used.

Whatever ati... I love both nvidia and these chumps announcing hw on their cards that are not yet operational. Hmm i sure feel better knowing my gts2 pro has hd capactity but doesnt use it cause lack of demand. Ati havent got smooth vision (anti aliasing) to work on their cards yet, u wonder how long hd decoding will take.


btw, i have a brand new 8500 retail still in shrink wrap for sale. please pm or email me. I have it posted on the classified section.

Sorry for the blatant plug.. but id rather get a gamecube with the cash. Asking 250 w/ free shipping.(usps)


K

 

[Phil Olson]

Ken,


Any thoughts? Have you seen any noise issues?


Thanks,

Phil