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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi AVR8000 owners,


I am in a discussion with the Vice President at Harman Kardon over the fact that I have had 4 AVR8000s and all have a "major" problem with Logic 7 and they all have been Jan2002 build dates.


Harman has been very helpful and prompt in trying to sort out my problem and even offered me a new 7200 if I like (but it doesn't have the features I need like the 8000)


They have posted me that the last production runs of the 8000 were Jan2002!!!!


I am sure some of you have posted later dates. I have found Russ Tarvin's post stating Feb2002.


Anyone have any build dates later than Jan2002? And if you have a date later than Jan2002 do you have any Logic7 problems?


Thanks,


John
 

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John,


Yes, I have a July 2002 build date. And a couple of times L7 has lost the center channel or put dialouge in all channels when using the analog input from my Sat. dish.


If you don't mind me asking, what problems do you have and what features does the AVR8000 have that the 7200 does not that you want.


Thanks,

Patrick
 

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I have a July 2002. I do not know if I have the Logic 7 problem.


I have the CC buzz and sometimes after pressing pause in DTS I do not get a lock on the signal for a minute or so after I press play.


mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
If you don't mind me asking, what problems do you have and what features does the AVR8000 have that the 7200 does not that you want.
Hi Patrick,


The problem I had was that when using L7, it would sporadically steer high sound pressure levels (and I mean HIGH) to all the side and rear speakers.


This happened on talk shows, news broadcasts and many commercials with my Dish Network.


It also happened during DVD and VHS tape playback.


It happened from 2 channel analog, 2 channel digital and 5.1 channel digital.


It did not seem to happen on FM broadcasts and CD music, but I normally listen to them in "surround off" mode.


I really like this receiver and it has all the features I need, but this L7 problem is a "pisser". I have had 4 units all with the same problem.


As far as features:


I like:


1) the 8000 amps are all "assignable" via simple RCA audio cable connections (not the case in the 7200)


2) the 8000 has Logic 7 overlay on 5.1 digital sources like the MC1 (not the case in the 7200)


3) the 8000 has THX EX processing (7200 does not)


4) the 8000 has more power (85amps over 5 channels to 75 amps over 7channels)


5) the 8000 has Gold binding posts and jacks (7200 does not)


6) the 8000 has Multi-zone audio "and" video (7200 does not - it is audio only)


I use it with a 3 channel CineNova power amp, assigning two of the unused channels to power my rear surrounds. (It is designed so that you can use the jumpers that come with it to do this)


I guess the biggest problem with the 7200 (for me) is the inability to be able to reassign the amps as needed.


But the real question is, if the last production run for the 8000 was Jan2002, how can you guys have July 2002 models????


And even more important, is it safe to say all of you who have July2002 issues "do not" have my same problem??


Thanks for the feedback.


John
 

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I have a Jan 2002 model and have never experienced these problems. I use L7 about 50% of the time, mostly on Dish Network satellite feeds, with some VCR and laserdisc.


When watching a Dish Network program, roughly every 2-3 hours, the L7 will seem to lose its "lock" and create a very diffused soundfield. I have to cycle to another mode, even if just to the L7 Music mode, and then back and it is "fixed." This has never happened on a VHS tape, laserdisc, or DVD. And the volume is no higher when it does happen. This can be a bit annoying and it shouldn't happen, but its a relatively minor nit. It's repeatable too, I own a Dish PVR and after "fixing it", I can hit replay to watch the same scene again and it will trigger the "diffusion" again. So there's something in the audio track that triggers this.


Tom B.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bioforce
Hi Patrick,


The problem I had was that when using L7, it would sporadically steer high sound pressure levels (and I mean HIGH) to all the side and rear speakers.


I really like this receiver and it has all the features I need, but this L7 problem is a "pisser". I have had 4 units all with the same problem.


But the real question is, if the last production run for the 8000 was Jan2002, how can you guys have July 2002 models????


And even more important, is it safe to say all of you who have July2002 issues "do not" have my same problem??


Thanks for the feedback.


John
Hi John,


It's safe to say I never had this problem for sure. And the sticker definately says July 2002.


As far as the features, I'd think I'd want to stay with the 8000 too.


Are the problems repeatable with say, video tapes etc.? For you to have the same obnoxious problem with 4 8000's is weird! Especially if no one else has experienced it. Maybe you have dirty power (AC) and the 8000 does not like it and it triggers something in the L7 circuit. Most likely not, but something weird is definately going on.


Best,

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
When watching a Dish Network program, roughly every 2-3 hours, the L7 will seem to lose its "lock" and create a very diffused soundfield. I have to cycle to another mode, even if just to the L7 Music mode, and then back and it is "fixed." This has never happened on a VHS tape, laserdisc, or DVD. And the volume is no higher when it does happen. This can be a bit annoying and it shouldn't happen, but its a relatively minor nit. It's repeatable too, I own a Dish PVR and after "fixing it", I can hit replay to watch the same scene again and it will trigger the "diffusion" again. So there's something in the audio track that triggers this.
Well at least someone else has experienced something like it. The fact that I mention that it gets louder might stem from the fact that it regularly happens during commercials when they turn up the volume anyhow. But when it happens on a DVD or tape, it goes from most of the sound coming from the center channel to it blasting out of all the side and rear surrounds.


If left to switch back on its own, it generally happens when the scene changes.


If anyone wants to try to see if their unit does it, in the DVD "Gone in 60 Seconds" Scene 2 "A Boost Gone Bad", there is a part where the car theives are having a conversation in their hideout. This scene triggers it in digital, and analog inputs.


I also use 7.1 not 5.1 so that too may contribute to the increase in SPLs on my rig.


This processing problem seems to happen at scene changes and during conversations. It also seems "not to happen" on steady state music like Sat Music channels and FM.


Another thing (unrelated) is that the AVR8000 "does not" have analog pass through. That is 2 channel "surround off" does not pass the analog signals directly.


At least according to the comparison chart on Harmans Site which shows that the 7200 "does" have it.


Since I use a seperate analog preamp for 2 channel music that doesn't matter to me, but for those who plan on using their receiver also as a "2 channel analog music preamp" the 7200 might be better.


Regards,


John
 

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I also use it in 7.1 mode. Indeed the volume does diminish in the center and increase in surrounds - and out of the front L & R too! It's like the steering goes awry and much more is sent to the sides than to the center. But the overall volume level remains roughly the same, perhaps a slight increase due to more speakers playing at the same level that was coming from the fronts before.


Others have reported the same thing. I think it is a bug in the L7 programming and not a function of the Jan 2002 run.


Tom B.
 

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My just-bought (Jan 02 built) avr-8000 also has the L7 steering problem with a few DVDs and cable. In my case, when it happens, most of the sound is directed to the LS and SBL channels at a higher--although not speaker-damaging-- volume. Things normalize after a minute or so, usually after a scene change. Returning to the same point on the DVD has caused the error to recur some of the time but not every time. Overall, it's happened about 6 times in 2 weeks of daily use.


Has anyone confirmed if this is a defect or not or pursued the issue with HK? For those of you who have had the problem, how often has it happened and has it gotten worse?


An unrelated question: my display never shows DTS-6.1 Matrix on a non-ES discrete DTS source; if I use the SB channels, my display reads DTS-NEO6, and pressing the Dts OR thx keys still won't bring up DTS 6.1 Matrix. Is DTS-Neo 6 Harman's term for DTS-Matrix 6.1 or is there some secret that has eluded me in my reading of the manual?


Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rdstarr


An unrelated question: my display never shows DTS-6.1 Matrix on a non-ES discrete DTS source; if I use the SB channels, my display reads DTS-NEO6, and pressing the Dts OR thx keys still won't bring up DTS 6.1 Matrix. Is DTS-Neo 6 Harman's term for DTS-Matrix 6.1 or is there some secret that has eluded me in my reading of the manual?


Bob
At the time of the AVR 8000 development DTS was revising their licensing policy of the DTS 6.1 Matrix. Basic reason was that they had just finished their development for 6.1 ES Discrete which was far superior to their matrix decoding scheme. As 6.1 ES Discrete provides up to 50dB of separation whereas a matrix system typically is much lower like 20-25dB. So then DTS only released I think 1 6.1 Matrix release "Haunting" then all later 6.1 DTS DVD releases were encoded with 6.1 Discrete. Also note that during this time the studios were given DTS encoders so they actually decided what format each specific title was encoded in either Dolby and DTS and what the mixes should be 6.1. Often these decisions were made for the fastest $ payback to the studio as the demand for DVD mastering was exceeding their capacity due to their explosive growth. And if it was a hot title like a 007 or Terminator they wanted to max the sound effects, so they applied extra effort to the big money titles. A delay of just a month here could cost the studios big $..


Also DTS told their licensees that if the DVD was 5.1 DTS they could activate NEO 6 for a matrix Center Back Surround output. This was done to mainly to compete Surround EX which THX was in the process of turning back to Dolby. Also DTS wanted NEO 6 to be capable of processing 2 channel sources (analog or digital) into 5.1 emulation kinda like Pro Logic II and Logic 7....


Just my $.02 worth... :cool:
 

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Well being in Australia, I have the AVR8500 (the international version of the AVR8000) with a July 2002 sticker on the back. I use L7 (5.1) 90% of the time whilst watching Digital TV (Free To Air).

I notice during some commercials that L7 suddenly boosts the sound to the rears, but when the show returns after the commercial break, the L7 is OK and the bias to the rears have gone.


I have noticed that this does not happen often, definately only 1-2 times per fortnight. Not enough of a problem for me to suspect an HK problem, and am thinking it's a result of the broadcaster's signal changing with a new signal coming thru the airwaves.


I have had to replace a faulty Hifi-quality AC Power line conditioner, and the new model dedicated to the receiver actually gives the AVR8500 a much cleaner sound. Having used these power conditioners on both my Hifi and now HT they tend to optimise the cleanliness of AC to the amps and allow them to operate maximally.


just my 2c worth.....but for the previous appenders....this is only worth 1c with the current exchange rates =;-(
 

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John,


For what its worth, I have my DirecTiVo hooked up to my 525 via digital and listen to all two-channel PCM in Logic7.


In the month that I have had the 525, I have noticed some funkiness twice. Once, the volume level was boosted...but not very high, but easily noticeable. The second, it seemed to steer sound to the wrong speakers.


curtis
 
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