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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20827083


Go back and read what I posted above.


There is a lot of BS included in descriptions of HDMI cables. HDCP compliance is an example.

I already read the post you made, hence the reply I made, I understand what you said, but wanted to see exact word for word that the theory of HDCP Compliance in a cable alone is a myth, BS, something people use to sell their cables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 /forum/post/20827878


As Colm said, purely a myth that the cable has to be HDCP compliant. HDCP is implemented in software / firmware, not in the cable (there isn't a specific HDCP line in the cable).

Thanks for the detailed reply, exactly what was needed, in those exact terms

"purely a myth that the cable has to be HDCP compliant." .


With that said, I know all to go by is HDMI revisions instead of choosing cables just because they are post marked "HDCP Compliant".


Now I'm really stuck with my WDTV surround sound via HDMI issue...


Thanks again,

John.
 

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No, HDMI revision is also irrelevant, at least since HDMI 1.3. All that is relevant is whether the cable is standard or high speed, with or without ethernet. There is no difference between a HDMI 1.3 cable and a HDMI 1.4 cable, unless the latter has ethernet. In fact, current HDMI licensing requirements prohibit the use of a version number on the cable or in advertising.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc /forum/post/20829210


I already read the post you made, hence the reply I made, I understand what you said, but wanted to see exact word for word that the theory of HDCP Compliance in a cable alone is a myth, BS, something people use to sell their cables.




Thanks for the detailed reply, exactly what was needed, in those exact terms

"purely a myth that the cable has to be HDCP compliant." .


With that said, I know all to go by is HDMI revisions instead of choosing cables just because they are post marked "HDCP Compliant".


Now I'm really stuck with my WDTV surround sound via HDMI issue...


Thanks again,

John.

And (as usual) exactly as Colm said - no version number may be used with an HDMI cable. Using a version number puts the company in violation of HDMI Org's directives.


High speed cable = 1080p / 60, Deep Color, 3D (plus everything with standard speed)

Standard speed cable = 720p / 1080i
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So in short, the best cable to use, to guarantee all features would be a "High Speed", "1.4" and "Ethernet functionality"?

A working cable with all these features would support, HD audio, 1080p video and a few more features I may use later on then?


If this is so, then why can I not get HD audio to pass-through via HDMI from my WDTV live plus.... Very frustrating.......
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc /forum/post/20829415


So in short, the best cable to use, to guarantee all features would be a "High Speed", "1.4" and "Ethernet functionality"?

A working cable with all these features would support, HD audio, 1080p video and a few more features I may use later on then?


If this is so, then why can I not get HD audio to pass-through via HDMI from my WDTV live plus.... Very frustrating.......

You have two questions -


1) Eliminate "1.4" and I'd say yes (although Ethernet is extra unless you have components that are able to send Ethernet over HDMI). So just "High Speed" should be sufficent.


2) The sink device must be able to support HD audio for the source to send it out. The source and sink talk using the EDID token so that the source doesn't send out something the sink can't handle. Could that be the problem?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc /forum/post/20829415


So in short, the best cable to use, to guarantee all features would be a "High Speed", "1.4" and "Ethernet functionality"?

A working cable with all these features would support, HD audio, 1080p video and a few more features I may use later on then?


If this is so, then why can I not get HD audio to pass-through via HDMI from my WDTV live plus.... Very frustrating.......

probably a lot of reasons... "flakey" wdtv live HDMI implementation (lots of posts in other forums on the web), HDCP compliancy across all your equipment, the sun, the moon,... :) ... its a fun HDMI world ... and the finger pointing continues... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997
2) The sink device must be able to support HD audio for the source to send it out. The source and sink talk using the EDID token so that the source doesn't send out something the sink can't handle. Could that be the problem?
My device is a WDTV live plus media player, I will not post details here, but in THIS topic, I have posted the issues I am having with the WDTV Live plus, with details of my TV model and other tests I have performed.


EDID token...

Do you know something about the WDTV I need to know, or you just added that in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich
probably a lot of reasons... "flakey" wdtv live HDMI implementation (lots of posts in other forums on the web), HDCP compliancy across all your equipment, the sun, the moon,... :) ... its a fun HDMI world ... and the finger pointing continues... :)
Yea, I have pointed fingers at everything and anything, at this point there is nothing else to think of.
 

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It just hit me that the key to your question is the "Not Supported by TV" message. This is the WDTV saying that the TV does not support the audio signal. So, in other words the WDTV is believing (for whatever firmware reasons) that your TV is stereo only. My first thought is that the firmware programmers said that any flat panel TV must be stereo-only. But, that's just speculation.


It would not surprise me that two different models of WDTVs have firmware from two different vendors and each vendor would implement things just a bit differently depending upon how they intepreted the requirements.


Assuming there isn't some WDTV menu item that isn't set properly, this looks like an EDID problem that can only be solved with updated firmware. It could also be that the TV EDID output is not standard, but again that would require a firmware update to fix.


If what Budwich suggested below doesn't work (also reset your Vizio) then I think your best bet if you can't get WD interested in fixing the problem, is to find a way to run coax Toslink directly to the A/V receiver. Of course, I'd bet that WD will claim it is a Vizio problem and it could be if their EDID isn't standard for some reason.


BTW, if this was an HDCP problem I would expect your picture to go blank and for you to get a completely different error message on the WD. There is usually only one response to a HDCP violation and that is no picture and no audio. HDCP was designed to prevent violations, not help the user by providing some of the data (a video picture in this case).
 

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lastly, have you reset your wdtv live plus box... some posts (other places) have indicated success with clearing "various issues".


The "finger pointing" comment was about the industry (hdmi related stuff) in general.... and is the usual "method" when multiple systems try to "play" in the communications world, especially in consumer communication products.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc
...why can I not get HD audio to pass-through via HDMI from my WDTV live plus...
Either the capabilities of the equipment on either end of the cable, or how they are configured.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997
It just hit me that the key to your question is the "Not Supported by TV" message. This is the WDTV saying that the TV does not support the audio signal. So, in other words the WDTV is believing (for whatever firmware reasons) that your TV is stereo only. My first thought is that the firmware programmers said that any flat panel TV must be stereo-only. But, that's just speculation.


It would not surprise me that two different models of WDTVs have firmware from two different vendors and each vendor would implement things just a bit differently depending upon how they intepreted the requirements.


Assuming there isn't some WDTV menu item that isn't set properly, this looks like an EDID problem that can only be solved with updated firmware. It could also be that the TV EDID output is not standard, but again that would require a firmware update to fix.


If what Budwich suggested below doesn't work (also reset your Vizio) then I think your best bet if you can't get WD interested in fixing the problem, is to find a way to run coax Toslink directly to the A/V receiver. Of course, I'd bet that WD will claim it is a Vizio problem and it could be if their EDID isn't standard for some reason.


BTW, if this was an HDCP problem I would expect your picture to go blank and for you to get a completely different error message on the WD. There is usually only one response to a HDCP violation and that is no picture and no audio. HDCP was designed to prevent violations, not help the user by providing some of the data (a video picture in this case).
You know, WD did not blame anyone, I did mention it, here it is again, WD say this is not possible, they claim that HD audio cannot be used with the HDMI, even on their generation 2 device which it did, Also, why would there be a menu item in the audio settings that clearly says "Digital Audio Via HDMI"


Goes to show what they know about their products. Same with Vizio, I mean exactly the same, they stated that their TVs (All of them) do not support digital audio in via HDMI either, this is false as I can get it working with the generation 2 WDTV, thus confirming the TVs capabilities, also noting that the manufacture site has the specs listed for my TV and it says its fully supported and HDCP compliant.


I would also like to add, that Dolby Digital does pass through in this configuration, goes right into the TV from the WDTV live plus via HDMI, then exits the TV into the receiver via toslink, then the receiver detects and decodes and displays the Dolby logo to confirm.


Second TosLink....

I was looking into it, I'm thinking toslink from TV to receiver, then also from WD to receiver at the same time, but with an inline toslink to coaxial converter so I can get best of both, an additional $20 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich
lastly, have you reset your wdtv live plus box... some posts (other places) have indicated success with clearing "various issues".


The "finger pointing" comment was about the industry (hdmi related stuff) in general.... and is the usual "method" when multiple systems try to "play" in the communications world, especially in consumer communication products.
I have updated the firmware (official and custom), resetting the device several times. I have not reset the device via the reset button however, not sure if this does anything different...



@alk3997


How do I reset my TV, unplug?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc /forum/post/20829415


So in short, the best cable to use, to guarantee all features would be a "High Speed", "1.4" and "Ethernet functionality"?

A working cable with all these features would support, HD audio, 1080p video and a few more features I may use later on then?


If this is so, then why can I not get HD audio to pass-through via HDMI from my WDTV live plus.... Very frustrating.......

Let me summarize here but I would suggest you go to the HDMI Licensing, LLC site and read up on the HDMI implementations for future reference. Basically, most of us will need to use just High Speed HDMI cables as was stated previously. If a manufacturer or retailer sells High Speed HDMI cables, make sure the you can get or view the certification certificate. If it's not certified, I'd look at another brand. And, price (the "M" brand comes to mind) does not necessarily mean you're getting a better cable.


High Speed HMDI:

Deep Color

xvYCC Color

Dolby Digital and DTS

DTS-HD Master Audio (lossless)

Dolby TrueHD (lossless)

ARC (Audio Return Channel)

4K, 1440p, 1080i/p, 720p, 480i/p

3D

HDCP Compliant

340Mhz or up to 10.2Gbps

Ethernet (optional)


If you're tv can support HD audio (DTS-Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD) then you're set. If your tv can't, and a lot of them don't, then you have to pass the signal thru to your HTS or whatever via toslink. However, toslink doesn't support lossless audio so the best you can do is Dolby Digital and DTS. All of my audio goes thru my HTS and the only thing I pass on to the tv is video. I use the toslink to pass Dolby 5.1 digital audio to my HTS when I'm watching tv which is OTA only. Oh yeah, to use the ARC feature of High Speed HDMI, both devices have to be able to support it. My HTS and BD player support ARC but my tv doesn't, but in my case it's unimportant. Nowadays, you almost have to "match" your devices if you want to be able to take advantage of the current HD audio and video formats. High Speed HDMI cables that are certified are more than most of us will need for a long time.
 

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quote... "I have updated the firmware (official and custom), resetting the device several times. I have not reset the device via the reset button however, not sure if this does anything different..."


I think the people are thinking a "reset button", but that is just my read. "Some" report that their box was working, connected to another TV, doesn't work, complains of things like "invalid mode", then try to connect back to the original TV, doesn't work, complaining of the same thing yet the TV worked previously... flakey yes, anyways some then report a "reset" cured issue while others had "less success". YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, I have never reset the device using the reset push button, I know the thing reboots on a new firmware install, not sure if it could be classed as a reset or not, nevertheless, I will try the reset using the actual reset button, I got nothing to lose, I hope lol.


Note, since I bought the WDTV it has always had this issue, I changed it out for another one, same thing again.


I avoid the reset button at all costs, once, on the gen2, I pressed it and some skull and crossbones screen came up, I believe you hold it for about 5 seconds to get to a recovery of firmware menu or something. Kinda scary when you see it the first time.


I will report back with results, I have already connected the optical cable from the TV back to the WDTV now, So I will try this tomorrow and see what happens.

Time to watch a movie on this thing
 

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having said all this... I see some sites indicating that there have been licensing issues between WD and DTS. This might have an impact on what was actually implemented. Just a "quick browse" of various searches.
 
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