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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If a projector has DVI input (such as the Infocus 350, 530), does that mean that you will be able to use the new 5C copy-protected HDTV boxes/etc?


Are such machines future-proof, or is it possible that I will still have to buy something new soon?


I think that this community needs to get clear on this issue very very quickly.
 

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I agree it is very confusing. I have a projector Mitsubishi X400 with DVI input and a just bought a HTPC AVS p IV Elite with DVI and both machine are with the guy who put the HTPC together I just spoke to him and he played DVD's and watch HDTV with those machine and everything was working beautifully. I will get them back tomorrow. Rick
 

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Of course time will tell its tale, but given the information we have discovered to date, the answer is no. The HDCP decoder has to be embedded in the display device or the sinister scheme falls apart (which in the hands of hackers it does anyway). This is pure evil folks.



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The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!
 

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I agree I think all of us (early HDTV adopters) are screwed. Analog HDTV transmission (e.g. 1080i, 720p RGB) will be outlawed (not sure if this is the right word). And all digital transmission schemes (e.g. DVI) will have to be scrambled which requires encrypting/decrypting on each end. My projector is analog, and none of the DVI projectors that we might have would be able to decrypt the signal.


Time to write the congressman.


------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!


[This message has been edited by Gary P. Gibbs (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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The answer if definetly no. DVI is not DVI with HDCP copy protection. Every projector discussed on this forum will be obsolete, at least for material on which the "copy protection" flag is enabled.


You're screwed. Sorry.


There are several threads going on in HD Hardware, such as
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/015144.html


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Alex
 

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Folks... CHILL THE HELL OUT! At this point we do not know if the devices will be obsolete. Manufacturers may offer a retrofit, THere may be allowances for analog connectivity. We don't know what the final answer is going to be.


In this forum there is going to be alot of conjecture and chest beating and (just a little..."i heard from a guy who knows a guy") some misinformation.


Somebody needs to create a list of the 5C players, find out some numbers for representation from those companies and call, email, write to. to find out what they plan.


5C is (to the best of my knowledge) a software plan right now with an eventual hardware solution. Has anybody seen a 5C output box? Put the energy into asking the manufacturers what they plan. And don't rely on the sales person at circuit silly.


Just my .02$
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dizzman:

Folks... CHILL THE HELL OUT!
No. Get madder than <my town>! And then proceed with some of your ideas. The thieves have already put in place legislation and, soon, the mechanical means by which they can - and will if uncontested - implement this scheme.

Quote:
At this point we do not know if the devices will be obsolete. Manufacturers may offer a retrofit, THere may be allowances for analog connectivity. We don't know what the final answer is going to be.
As I mentioned, "Of course time will tell its tale", but there are certain things that we already know thanks to digging of some of the AVS membership (the entities involved sure aren't going to tell us). Most of this effort can be found in the HDTV Hardware forum, first a year ago, then again 6 months ago, and then the past few weeks. We know for certain that HDCP prohibits any and all analog outputs with resolution greater than those that I mentioned. To allow such would make their gross efforts pointless.

Quote:
In this forum there is going to be alot of conjecture and chest beating and (just a little..."i heard from a guy who knows a guy") some misinformation.
As I mentioned above, there will also be lots of stuff that we can dig up on these creeps. The agreement was found on the Silicon Image (I believe) website. There will be exaggeration, but there is so much bad in this, it is so draconian, that it is hard to stretch the truth.

Quote:
Somebody needs to create a list of the 5C players, find out some numbers for representation from those companies and call, email, write to. to find out what they plan.
Certainly more effort can always be made here. However, It is in their interest to let this just sneak into the market - kinda like the DMCA.



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The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!
 

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I got a dollar that says you won't see a retrofit for any projector under $15k MSRP. Volumes and margins are too low. Besides, what BUSINESS projector mfr is going to care about whether or not you can see encrypted HD? And let's face it, 98% of all projectors discussed here are manufactured for business use.


Besides, if you bought a good business projector now, and then bought another after the encrypted switchover, you'd still end up paying less in total dollars than buying a comparable (lumen/resol.) projector from a HT specific mfr that decided to upgrade your unit.


The discussion would go like this:

Rich kid:: "My $15,000 projector got upgraded for FREE to the new standard, yours is only good for DVDs now!"
Poor kid:: "Yeah, I had to buy a second projector for my HD room - set me back 5 grand. Of course, it's the latest and greatest 1080x1920, 5000 lumen projector. I'm gonna put the old one in the bedroom. I can't believe I spend $6000 on it just four years ago.
Rich kid:: "You got one in your bedroom now, too? I hate you."


I think by the time this whole thing hashes out, my 10HT will be ready for a gentle retirement to either the parents house or a secondary room. I'll just stroll down to WallyWorld and pick up the newest $99 three chip DLP with the built in HD tuner, 1080 line 16:9 chips, 2000:1 contrast , and 5000 lumen output. Of course, I'll have to buy the $49 "StewHeart" gray screen that goes with it. :)
 

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rlsmith,


My understanding is that 5C (aka DTCP), which has been accepted by the major movie studios, is designed to be used over 1394, not DVI. The DVI scrambling method developed by JVC is know as HDCP. The two are not compatible.


I'm not sure if it would be possible to implement 5C on DVI or not. If not, then the answer to your question is, no.


The satalite companies (Dishnetwork, ...) have suposedly adopted DVI/HDCP. So, if a major studio movie is shown in HD by Dish, who wins? That's a whole new can of worms.


-phil
 

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Isn't Mitsubishi the only company that has promised upgadeability? Too bad no one else has.




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Keith S.
 

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FYI, the DTCP license agreement was pulled from their website. They say they're updating it. Anyway, the original license would appear to disallow analogue HDTV output on any copyprotected material.


The relevant section was as follows:

Quote:
4.2 Analog Outputs, Video. A Licensed Product shall not pass any analog representation or conversion of the video portion of Decrypted DT Data to any output except:

4.2.1 Where an Analog Protection System (“APSâ€) would not be or is not required to be activated according to these Compliance Rules as specified, or

4.2.2 Where such output embodies an approved analog Reprotection referenced in Section 4.3 of this Exhibit B, Part 1, which is invoked as specified by its copy control bits upon such output, or

4.2.3 Where the Licensed Product is a Computer Product and such output constitutes an output to a computer monitor, such as SVGA. (Adopter is cautioned that one or more protection methods are anticipated to be adopted for such outputs, which methods will become a condition of this Agreement or an amendment thereto.)

4.3 Analog Video Reprotection. In any transmission through an NTSC, YUV, SECAM, PAL, or consumer RGB format analog output..


Section 4.3 pertains to sdtv signals



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Alex
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by work permit:
Every projector discussed on this forum will be obsolete, at least for material on which the "copy protection" flag is enabled.


You're screwed. Sorry.

Well...by that impenetrable logic I suppose I should just take my CRT projector and toss it out the nearest window. What on earth will I do now?


You know, I don't like this any more than the next person, but puhleeeze give me a break. The next thing I will be reading around here is that the MPAA will figure out a way to remotely erase by osmosis my 625 disc DVD collection because I opted out of HDTV. If what is on HBO and Showtime is the best that I can look forward to then I'll pass.


Yea, yea...people tell me constantly about what I am missing. Frankly, I am not that impressed. Live action sporting events look fabulous--film is another story.


--Jerome
 

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Yes, the thing about HDTV is that it's still "TV" i.e. 99% of it's is crap at *any* resolution. Movies in HD is a great idea, but with HBO cropping everything to 16x9 and who knows what else, I'll keep my DVDs. I'd love to watch the occasional football game in HD, but not at what it will cost me.


Massive HD rollout is probably going to take 5 years longer than advocates hope, and a lot of that will still probably just be old content upconverted.


I think most projectors people have will be *truly* obsolete before HD has a chance to make them so.


All IMHO of course. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dfriend:
Yes, the thing about HDTV is that it's still "TV" i.e. 99% of it's is crap at *any* resolution.


All IMHO of course. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
My point exactly. Do we really want, to use your words, crap on our screens only in greater detail? Like all I need now is The All News Channel, E!, and M(indless)T(ele)V(ision) in HiDef.


Thanks but no thanks.


--Jerome
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Angeli662:
I want my money back or I will sew!!!! Rick
You'll sew? A nice quilt or something? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif j/k


Seriously, I have the inverse question. Let's say that I buy the JVC "D'ahlia" rear-projector, which has DVI/HDCP interface. If I had content with unencrypted DVI output, is it supposed to work? I would assume it would, but there's just no telling what kind of weirdness some of these folks will come up with...



------------------

Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)


[This message has been edited by JustMike (edited 07-28-2001).]
 

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Probably not but thanks to you I was forced to look it up

is it(sue) correctly? Come on lets not be carried way here the issue here is I just bought a projector with DVI in put and a HPTC with DVI out put witch is by the way the best picture I ever seen; would work with HDTV after this mess is settled. Rick
 
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