[CDToaster]

20 years ago, I produced a 2 hour movie on VHS tape comprised of 25 different silent home movie scenes (from 8mm film) to which I've placed Index marks at the beginnings of each scene, to facilitate my subsequent locating each scene, onto which I dubbed one entire song that was appropriate for the scene.


Now, I want to use a Panny DMR-EZ48 vhs to dvd transfer machine to transfer the vhs to dvd. As everyone should know, the Panny cannot do the transfer without creating unwanted Chapters whenever an Index mark is recognized.


My solution was to put the tape into a Mitsubishi HS-U69 VCR that has the ability to ERASE Index marks.


My idea was to search for the Index marks on the tape, then erase them all, hoping that the end result will produce a tape that the Panny EZ-48 will not chop into Chapters since there will be no Index marks.


However, I cannot damage this Master tape; I cannot ruin it under any circumstances. My fear is that by erasing the Index marks, I will ALSO erase the much needed control track time code that as everyone knows, the machine relies upon to play the tape smoothly without any glitches or noise bars.


So what I'm asking is whether or not erasing the Index marks will adversely effect the subsequent playing of the tape which MUST play continuously without noise bars. I cannot damage the Time Code on the tape!


I have not been able to find any reference on the internet as to exactly how or where the Index marks are placed, other than "on the Control track." I want to erase the Index marks but NOT time code.


If I erase the Index marks AND the control track, the playback of THAT section of the tape will NOT play back properly since there would be no time code present. I must know if erasing only the Index marks will adversely affect the playing of the tape.


Thank you, all, for your help. I look forward to your replies.


You can contact me directly here: [email protected]


With much thanks from my entire family,

Tony

 

[Church AV Guy]

Connect your Mitsubishi HS-U69 to your Panasonic DMR-EZ48 using S-Video and R/L RCA audio cables. Put your tape in the VCR. Press record on the DVD recorder, and then play on the VCR and let it go. You will get one continuous recording with no chapter marks. No need to mess with your original tape at all. The quality will not suffer, at least not noticeably.

 

[CDToaster]

Dear Luke,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my inquiry.

However, I am fully aware of my ability to perform the dvd dub using an external VCR as my Source deck, as opposed using to the internal deck of the Panny EZ48. I have already done that and compared the two resulting video images and contrary to your opinion regarding there being no noticeable difference, I must differ with you since I CAN see a very distinct difference between the two. Using the internal deck produced a very crisp, clean, and clear image whereas the external VCR dub was good, but obviously inferior. The internal circuitry of the EZ48 produced an image on the resulting dvd that was actually SUPERIOR to the original VHS tape! At the very least, it was identical, but I believe it was actually superior. So no, I'm not looking to go that route (i.e., dubbing from an external source). What I am going to do is duplicate my scenario using a throw-away tape.


I will create another VHS tape sequenced with multiple silent scenes, then I will go back and add Index marks to each scene's beginning, then I will go back and add a soundtrack. This duplicates my existing scenario. I will then go back once again and ERASE the Index marks to determine the effect on the videotape's playback. If the playback is unaffected, then I can proceed with great confidence that doing the exact same procedure to the original tape will not produce any harmful effects.


Perhaps you have no experience with erasing Index marks; having such knowledge was actually a prerequisite to being able to address my question. My Mitsubishi HS-U69 (as well as a Panasonic 1980) writes and erases Index marks. I just don't know how erasing them will affect playback, if at all, so I'll make my test tape and THEN I will know the truth.


I really do appreciate your advice.


The time you've taken to advise me was very much appreciated.


Sincerely,

Tony

 

[JeffWld]

Given the level of concern you have over altering the master tape, your thoughts about making a test tape is the best option. Your real concern is not really about time code, but whether the sync pulses on the control track will be disturbed by the erasure of an index mark. I truly doubt they will, but your test tape will provide the level of assurance you seek.

If you found that connecting an external VCR to make the transfer produced inferior results, it is more the limitations of the VCR you used as opposed to the superior nature of the Panasonic's EZ-48's built-in VCR or processing circuitry.

 

[jjeff]

During my dubbing project I've found theirs no magic bullet for the best playback VCR. IMO you've got to try several VCRs and use the one that produces the best quality. Once you find the best VCR it should be the same for all tapes originally recorded on the same machine. For most of my SP recorded tapes I found a cheaper 4 head Samsung VR8460 provided the best picture quality(even though most of the tapes were recorded on much older 4 video head Panasonic based or JVC VCRs). The built in VHS player on my Panasonic ES-30v combos looked overly sharp and noisy compared to using a external player. Of course other tapes may have looked better using the built in VCR.

I also can't believe erasing the index marks would effect the time code but only a couple VCRs I had had such index marks and I don't think any allowed the mark to be erased. I think the JVCs just made a mark every time a new recording was started which was handy for cue'ing to find the beginning of a recording.

I agree unless you find someone who knows for sure(long shot) your test tape is probably the best way to go

 

[Church AV Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CDToaster /forum/post/20809614


Dear Luke,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my inquiry.

However, I am fully aware of my ability to perform the dvd dub using an external VCR as my Source deck, as opposed using to the internal deck of the Panny EZ48. I have already done that and compared the two resulting video images and contrary to your opinion regarding there being no noticeable difference, I must differ with you since I CAN see a very distinct difference between the two.

.

.

.

Perhaps you have no experience with erasing Index marks; having such knowledge was actually a prerequisite to being able to address my question. My Mitsubishi HS-U69 (as well as a Panasonic 1980) writes and erases Index marks. I just don't know how erasing them will affect playback, if at all, so I'll make my test tape and THEN I will know the truth.


I really do appreciate your advice.


The time you've taken to advise me was very much appreciated.


Sincerely,

Tony

Well, you have very different results than I did. I don't have a EZ48, I have two EH75s, and using them with a good external VCR gave me, if not just as good, better results than using the internal dubbing features. I copied somewhere around 1500 video tapes in my dubbing project, so I have some experience here, but not with your machine, obviously. Usually, you get the highest quality when you use the same machine to playback the tape that you used to record it. I found I had much more flexability using separate playback/record units. I agree that "feature" of breaking up the recording based on index marks was terrible!

I have owned two Mitsubishi HS-U69s, and a number of others that have the erase index capability. I have used it on occasion, and it never interfered with subsequent playback of the tapes. I am not so concerned specifically with this as you appear to be, but that has been my experience.

 

[Super Eye]

In the mid 90s I owned a Mitsubishi HS-U500, which also had the famous Mitshubishi add/erase index marks feature. At first I thought what a cool feature (as I record concerts and it would be nice to erase the automatically added erase marks and manually add index marks only at the beginning of each song) But as time went by I realized it was more of a nuisance as I usually watch my concerts from beginning to end.

As far as I remember erasing the index marks did not break the control track and it did not affect playback performance at all. Of course you should do your own test for piece of mind.

 

[CitiBear]

Erasing the VISS index markers on a tape by using a VCR that specifically features a manual add/delete system should not harm the control track: if it did, the feature would be worthless and consumers would have made quite a stink. It certainly would never have been included on the megabuck Panasonic, Sony, Mitsubishi and JVC vcrs many of us still dub to DVD from. That said, few VCRs actually took full advantage of the marker system to allow manual add/delete, and at this late date it may not be a good idea to experiment on an older priceless tape in a VCR that did not originally record it. The concept may have been "do no harm" but as VCRs age little things like marker heads/circuits can drift out of whack, behaving unexpectedly.


The Panasonic EZ48v is regarded with considerable suspicion by most AVS veterans, who've had nothing but grief from it. That fact that your particular EZ48v has an apparently superior VHS mechanism is remarkable, but it happens. I find the VCRs in some combos have better tracking performance than many standalone VCRs, for instance, although they tend to be poor in other respects. In your case it may simply be that your HS-U69 vcr is older than Betty White and long past its prime (unlike her). Video heads wear down and get embedded with oxides, the EZ48v vcr is brand new and clean. You might consider just buying another "refurb" EZ48v cheap on eBay or elsewhere, and use your current EZ48v as an external VCR feeding the DVD section of the second EZ48v. Sell the extra EZ when you finish your project.


Alternatively, if its really just this one tape you're concerned about, load a DVD-RAM disc instead of DVD-R in your EZ48v, and dub the tape to that. When the recording is finished, you can go into the chapter editing system and combine all the chapter markers to make one continuous DVD recording. The EZ48v allows this marker editing with DVD-RAM media, but not +-R or RW. The DVD-RAM disc can then be ripped to a PC and converted to a "normal" DVD-R copy for your archives. This would require a PC with DVD-RAM compatible drive, and software that can recognize and rip/convert DVD-RAM file structure. Ask around, you might know a secret geek who would take care of this for you quickly.

 

[Super Eye]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/20810603


to allow manual add/delete, and at this late date it may not be a good idea to experiment on an older priceless tape in a VCR that did not originally record it. The concept may have been "do no harm" but as VCRs age little things like marker heads/circuits can drift out of whack, behaving unexpectedly.

Once again you're absolutely right CitiBear.

There's not much room for error. The index marks are most likely recorded very close to the control track pulses on the edge of the tape. A slight head or track path miss alignment could indeed mess with the control track IF trying to erase the index marks with a slightly miss-aligned VCR.


I would add: This late in the game it may be a bad idea in attempting to erase the index marks even with the original Mitsubishi VCR as the VCR's heads may have slightly drifted over the years. If Tony wants to try this, he should try it first with another tape that is not important and was recorded on the same Mitsubishi VCR around the same time he recorded his priceless tape. Just to make sure the head path is still in alignment and wont mess with his priceless recordings.