[cwoody222]

Well, it's been noted here http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/002247.html that some people get more frequent Channel Guide updates than others.


And here http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/001319.html ReplayBen said Replay Zone content COULD be targeted (geographically?).


So...an experiment? Let's see what Zones we all have - are we all getting the same ones? Take a minute and tell us what ones you have. I'll go first:


October

Season Premiere

Movies

Emmy

Travel

Biography

CNN

Showtime

Award Winners

NBC Drama

TBS

Style

Cartoon Network

X-Zone

Cooking

NBC News

Music

The Movie Channel

School

Arts

Family

Newsmagazines

FLIX

Game Shows

NBC Comedy

Home

Crime

Sitcoms

Sci-Fi

CNNfn

Your Money

Sports

Sundance

Auto

Health

Soaps

More!

Create


Your turn...

 

[ReplayBen]

In an attempt to nip this in the bud...


While it is theoretically possible to target zone content, we are not using this capability at this time.


Currently everyone is supposed to get the same content. (Although it can take a few days for new content to work its way out across all units).


Ben.

 

[Michael Gwynn]

Quote:

Originally posted by ReplayBen: In an attempt to nip this in the bud...

Whew... thanks, RBen.


But I'm not saying that another "discussion" wouldn't be fun to watch.


Sorry, Gwoody... For me, anyway, that's just a little too much info to have to type in here. But comparing my screen to yours, I don't notice anything missing. And I'm a 2.1 Showstopper.

 

[Snarler]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Nudelman: The thread you referenced shows a somewhat subtle effect that probably happened something like this: unit A and B connect on night X. A succeeds, and downloads data for, let's say, days X+1 thru X+9. B downloads nothing. On the next day, TMS changes the listing info for one program on day X+5. That night (X+1), A and B both succeed, and B downloads data for X+2 thru X+10, getting the updated data for day X+5. But A, since it already has data for X+1 thru X+9, only downloads new data for X+10. For the next couple of days, A and B have different data for that program on day X+5, even though their net connections all succeed on those days. Finally, a day or two before X+5, A updates its data for that day and sees the TMS correction. Sorry if this explanation was a little tedious, but I didn't want to let a statement stand that sounded like Replay was deliberately favoring some units over others. Everyone has equal access to channel guide data. --Mark

I really hope the way you described is *not* how it works. If two machines connect on the same day, their program guide data should be identical and complete. Period. End of discussion. If that's *not* the way it happens, then someone's guide isn't correct, and that means someone cannot make a fully informed decision.


I've heard comments before like, even though the guide data has been updated, the box won't download the changes for a particular day until the last connect before that day, even if there are connects between the updated data and the last connect. I think this goes along with what you described above. So if I don't make that last connect for whatever reason, I'm screwed even though the data has been there for several other connects. Or better yet, I don't get a chance to record something because I didn't know it was going to be on or I don't see it in my guide so I don't know to record it, and I don't happen to scroll through all my TV listings first thing in the morning before I go to work.


I guess this is a little OT, sorry, but for some reason it's starting to bug me...


*****Daniel

 

[cwoody222]

Daniel,


I fully agree w/ you.


If two machines download on the same day successfully their guide data should be 100% equal. Period.


Replay's decision to "hold" changes until the last minute is a bad one, IMHO. As you say, it makes users ability to make an informed decision harder.


Also, as we can see here, it means that sometimes units who make 100% all-the-time successful connections could have incorrect data when other machines you "get lucky" and download on the special day Replay decided to update with TMS changes has more correct data.


Does that make sense?

(in a perfect world no one would ever miss a call, but we know that can't happen)


Plus, as I witnessed on the Sunday the 30th, I did a successful Net Connect at 7:50pm and Replay did NOT update w/ non-World Series info for Sunday night NOR did Replay update that Tucker was cancelled. Overnight Sunday the 30th I had ANOTHER SUCCESSFUL nightly call and Replay still didn't remove Tucker from my schedule.


So...even if the above is true and I would have to "wait" until the last possible day for Relplay to give me this info - how come I didn't get it?


Just give everyone THE NEWEST information AS SOON AS IT'S AVAIL. and there won't be this many problems. Period.


If the network can't handle the load, upgrade. Period.

 

[karog]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Nudelman: The thread you referenced shows a somewhat subtle effect that probably happened something like this: unit A and B connect on night X. A succeeds, and downloads data for, let's say, days X+1 thru X+9. B downloads nothing. On the next day, TMS changes the listing info for one program on day X+5. That night (X+1), A and B both succeed, and B downloads data for X+2 thru X+10, getting the updated data for day X+5. But A, since it already has data for X+1 thru X+9, only downloads new data for X+10. For the next couple of days, A and B have different data for that program on day X+5, even though their net connections all succeed on those days. Finally, a day or two before X+5, A updates its data for that day and sees the TMS correction. Sorry if this explanation was a little tedious

Quite the contrary. It is very telling. It tells us, as mentioned by others, that Guide data does not get updated via downloads as soon as it is available to the servers. No doubt this is to shorten the nightly calls by downloading less information. However, this is a terrible decision.


A smart server and a smart protocol could detect on the server side incremental differences in Guide data and then download the incremental changes for days where the bulk of the information was previously downloaded. For any given day, the user's machine could communicate that it has no data for a given day or that it has data as of some date and time. The server could then know what changes occurred for that day after that date and time and download the new changes. I believe this would not be an excessive burden, much less than downloading 8 full days every night.


I know the typical response, that I don't know how hard it would be to do in the Replay system. It is still the better thing to do and something Replay should target for the future.

 

[Dr. Zed]

Quote:

Originally posted by karog: Quite the contrary. It is very telling. It tells us, as mentioned by others, that Guide data does not get updated via downloads as soon as it is available to the servers. No doubt this is to shorten the nightly calls by downloading less information. However, this is a terrible decision.

It wouldn't really shorten anything significantly. All that is being done (based on the info in this thread) is a delay in the download. The time saved on one day is spent on the next. The only gain would be if the data changed more than one. In such a case, you "save" by not downloading the first change.

Quote:

A smart server and a smart protocol could detect on the server side incremental differences in Guide data and then download the incremental changes for days where the bulk of the information was previously downloaded. For any given day, the user's machine could communicate that it has no data for a given day or that it has data as of some date and time. The server could then know what changes occurred for that day after that date and time and download the new changes. I believe this would not be an excessive burden, much less than downloading 8 full days every night.

It wouldn't need to be that complicated. All you really need is some time-code for the updates and then, when I unit called in, it would report the time of it's last call and it would then recieve any data entries that occur after the date of the last call. I would have assumeed that this is how such things were being done.



------------------
"It's like living in the future."


[This message has been edited by an infinite number of monkeys (edited 10-24-2000).]

 

[cwoody222]

I think Dr. Zed hit it right on the head.


NO download time is being SAVED at all.


That is...unless...data is downloaded...then it changes...then it changes AGAIN. In that RARE case Replay saved the small amount of time it would have 'wasted' updating the data during the second round of data.


How often does TMS data change? How often does it change TWICE? How often does it change twice in a seven-day period!


I'd *guess* it's fairly rare.


Even if it's not, who's Replay to say that we don't want to see ALL the information. Aren't I paying for a DAILY updated channel guide...not a channel guide that's updated just at the last minute so as not to confuse my frail human brain with repeated changes?


And to say that some users who don't have local numbers would be unfairly burdened is a completely useless excuse since the ONLY reason they don't have a local number is because Replay doesn't give them one. It's not like the CHOOSE to pay for the call!


Replay is NOT the market leader. They only have ONE competitor. It's fairly easy to pick up on the best course of action to gain market share: close ALL gaps your one competitor has over you. This is one.


Sure, things *above and beyond* closing gaps (MyReplayTV.com) is good too...but if something is THIS EASY to nip in the bud: do it. Without question.


'Least that's my two cents.

 

[cwoody222]

Daniel hit something else on the head:


"Or better yet, I don't get a chance to record something because I didn't know it was going to be on or I don't see it in my guide so I don't know to record it, and I don't happen to scroll through all my TV listings first thing in the morning before I go to work."


Um, yea...so unless I read thru my data before going to work I'll miss chances to record shows.


Thanks Replay.


Er, wait...I guess I can logon to MyReplayTV.com and record it, right? Oh no, wait, I can't do that because Replay will STILL make me wait until the next nightly call.


Why don't they just not update for changes at all; that way we don't know what we missed http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif