Does Sony get $$$ for each BD sold?
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Right now, I believe the patent pool for BD is in flux (same for HD DVD), so it is unclear who would get paid and how much (Panasonic also has quite a bit of I.P. wrapped up in BD). As I understand it, however, there is no "forgiveness clause" for products already produced -- once the patent pool has been established and dollarized, all products produced (not just from that point forward) will owe product royalty.
It should be noted that this is not unique to Sony or Panasonic. DVD has a royalty stream attached to it, as does CD. I believe (not sure on this one) that .MP3 is a public license, maybe someone can confirm or provide more info.
It should be noted that this is not unique to Sony or Panasonic. DVD has a royalty stream attached to it, as does CD. I believe (not sure on this one) that .MP3 is a public license, maybe someone can confirm or provide more info.
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You guys do realise, of course, that this continuing idea that BD is a Sony technology is completely false, right? The reality of the situation, is that Panasonic is responsible for more BD patents than any other company, Sony included. BD is much more of a Panasonic format than a Sony format.
You do realize that Sony has the most riding on the success of this format and pushes it on every single PS3 ad so, to J6P, Sony = PS3 = Blu-ray.
Is it really that hard to comprehend?
It doesn't matter if they aren't the company with the biggest investment or involvement in the production of the technology...they are the ones promoting it more than anyone else and have pretty much made certain the fact that everyone sees Blu-ray as a Sony technology.
You do realize that Sony has the most riding on the success of this format and pushes it on every single PS3 ad so, to J6P, Sony = PS3 = Blu-ray.
Is it really that hard to comprehend?
It doesn't matter if they aren't the company with the biggest investment or involvement in the production of the technology...they are the ones promoting it more than anyone else and have pretty much made certain the fact that everyone sees Blu-ray as a Sony technology.
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Yeah but I find the whole "Sony" argument irrelevant. Companies develop new technologies all of the time, some take hold, some do not. Sony has had a history of trying to buck the market with their IP, however in this case, they've gone about BD in a whole different way. The market is on their side in this case.
To answer the OPs question, yes, Sony collects royalties on BD based products.
Yeah but I find the whole "Sony" argument irrelevant. Companies develop new technologies all of the time, some take hold, some do not. Sony has had a history of trying to buck the market with their IP, however in this case, they've gone about BD in a whole different way. The market is on their side in this case.
To answer the OPs question, yes, Sony collects royalties on BD based products.
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Panasonic wasn't even one of the 9 original companies who founded the blu-ray technology in 2002. How can you say it's more of a Panasonic format?
Edit: I take it back. As Matsushita, they were.
However, Sony and Pioneer are credited with 'inventing' blu-ray following their joint work on blue laser media. (Blue DVR and Ultra Density Optical formats.)
Panasonic wasn't even one of the 9 original companies who founded the blu-ray technology in 2002. How can you say it's more of a Panasonic format?
Edit: I take it back. As Matsushita, they were.
However, Sony and Pioneer are credited with 'inventing' blu-ray following their joint work on blue laser media. (Blue DVR and Ultra Density Optical formats.)
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Sony didn't make the Blu-Ray technology. They just spearheaded it. Plus if there was any
money making deal here, it should go to BDA not Sony.
money making deal here, it should go to BDA not Sony.
Sony is one of the largest patent holders but how much that translates in payback, I have no clue. Another thing to keep in mind though is most of the BD disc production are from companies also owned by Sony which is again collecting with actually producing all the other studio discs.
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It would go to BDA member companies once all of the IP and royalty disputes are sorted by the MPEG-LA .
Currently these are the companies that stand to make some amount of money from Blu-ray royalties:
CyberLink Corporation
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi Ltd.
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sonic Solutions
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Victor Company of Japan (JVC, minority owned by Matsushita), Ltd.
Warner Home Video Inc.
These are the companies that have contributed IP to Blu-ray.
As for their relative importance in that list, I'll give the top five:
1. Panasonic
2. Samsung
3. Sony
4. Philips
5. Pioneer
It would go to BDA member companies once all of the IP and royalty disputes are sorted by the MPEG-LA .
Currently these are the companies that stand to make some amount of money from Blu-ray royalties:
CyberLink Corporation
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi Ltd.
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sonic Solutions
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Victor Company of Japan (JVC, minority owned by Matsushita), Ltd.
Warner Home Video Inc.
These are the companies that have contributed IP to Blu-ray.
As for their relative importance in that list, I'll give the top five:
1. Panasonic
2. Samsung
3. Sony
4. Philips
5. Pioneer
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No, why would they be, they haven't contributed to Blu-ray with any IP.
Just click the link for the MPEG-LA and you will see all of the companies that 'own' the Blu-ray format.
No, why would they be, they haven't contributed to Blu-ray with any IP.
Just click the link for the MPEG-LA and you will see all of the companies that 'own' the Blu-ray format.
'Max' -- any thoughts on who financially has the "big deal" IP wrapped up in Blu-ray? Is it fairly equal amongst thost top five, or is there one (or possibly two) heavyweight(s)?
Also, given that you're a financial "Insider" (even though the thread no longer exists . . . what do we call you one-time Insider?), what are you thoughts around which of the BDA companies have the most to gain/lose from Blu-ray success (I.P. royalties aside)?
Also, given that you're a financial "Insider" (even though the thread no longer exists . . . what do we call you one-time Insider?), what are you thoughts around which of the BDA companies have the most to gain/lose from Blu-ray success (I.P. royalties aside)?
All? That would be a pretty incorrect assumption. A patent pool is voluntary. So no company is obligated to be part of it. Take Thomson (RCA). They collect MPEG-2 codec royalties but refused to join the pool. There are many companies who collect money but choose to not participate in a pool because they don't like the terms (i.e. think they can get more money on the outside).
Also, patent pools are formed based on issued patents. This allows companies with older more fundamental patents in, but keeps companies out who are still waiting for their patents to be issued (which takes 4 years on the average these days). So if Apple has brought something to the specs in the last two years since they have been on the board, it will take some time for them to get a seat at the table.
The other thing of importance is that you don't need to have brought anything explicitly to BD format to be part of the pool. People could have put things in a spec which is patented by someone else and they don't know about it. That company or individual may not even be aware of that until later time. And per above, may attempt to go and collect from people who have shipped the most.
Finally, there is no requirement at this point that members identify themselves in the pool. So there may be other companies not listed. Note that I am not saying this is the case but that how the rules work.
So as you see, these things are complex. Unless you have been part of one, most of what they do is not known to you....
All? That would be a pretty incorrect assumption. A patent pool is voluntary. So no company is obligated to be part of it. Take Thomson (RCA). They collect MPEG-2 codec royalties but refused to join the pool. There are many companies who collect money but choose to not participate in a pool because they don't like the terms (i.e. think they can get more money on the outside).
Also, patent pools are formed based on issued patents. This allows companies with older more fundamental patents in, but keeps companies out who are still waiting for their patents to be issued (which takes 4 years on the average these days). So if Apple has brought something to the specs in the last two years since they have been on the board, it will take some time for them to get a seat at the table.
The other thing of importance is that you don't need to have brought anything explicitly to BD format to be part of the pool. People could have put things in a spec which is patented by someone else and they don't know about it. That company or individual may not even be aware of that until later time. And per above, may attempt to go and collect from people who have shipped the most.
Finally, there is no requirement at this point that members identify themselves in the pool. So there may be other companies not listed. Note that I am not saying this is the case but that how the rules work.
So as you see, these things are complex. Unless you have been part of one, most of what they do is not known to you....
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Of those listed, Samsung and Panasonic with Sony and Pioneer close behind. The whole thing is fairly equal and there isn't one single company whose IP stake is significantly higher or lower than any of the others in the five I listed.
Who stands to lose or gain the most, well, the company who stands to lose the most is Pioneer, they have banked heavily on the high-end market for a long time and Blu-ray gives them a great outlet. The others are far too diversified to be effected if Blu-ray were to fail. On gaining, the six big studios stand to gain the most, in the CE world it would be Panasonic and Sony which is why these are the two companies seen fighting most along with Pioneer for the future of Blu-ray.
Anyway, got to rush...
Of those listed, Samsung and Panasonic with Sony and Pioneer close behind. The whole thing is fairly equal and there isn't one single company whose IP stake is significantly higher or lower than any of the others in the five I listed.
Who stands to lose or gain the most, well, the company who stands to lose the most is Pioneer, they have banked heavily on the high-end market for a long time and Blu-ray gives them a great outlet. The others are far too diversified to be effected if Blu-ray were to fail. On gaining, the six big studios stand to gain the most, in the CE world it would be Panasonic and Sony which is why these are the two companies seen fighting most along with Pioneer for the future of Blu-ray.
Anyway, got to rush...
One more thing on who gets paid for what. The patent pool does not even begin to describe that. Companies could and usually do have contractual agreements behind the doors to rebalance the revenues collected in the pool. This could go as far as a PCL (Patent Cross License) where they refund each other for all the fees or nothing at the other extreme to any artificial division created by the two of them.
Net, net, you will never know who collects what.
Net, net, you will never know who collects what.
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