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Does the sound of a solid state amp change after it warms up?

12067 Views 126 Replies 36 Participants Last post by Chu Gai, Feb 18, 2010

lmacmil

Discussion Starter · Feb 10, 2010

I was browsing a non-AVS speaker forum and a guy was complaining about his speakers being too bright. Several posters suggested it might be the amp and claimed their systems sounded bright when initially turned on but the brightness went away after 30 min or so. They said once the amp warmed up, it sounded less bright, suggesting a frequency response change. I'm sure they were talking about solid state amps (Adcom was one.)

I suggested maybe it was their ears that were adjusting. I am sure I will be roundly denounced as a heretic, know-nothing (certainly possible), and maybe even a communist.

So I come to the forum of truth and science. Does a solid state amplifier have to "warm up" (more than say a couple minutes) before it sounds best?

1 - 20 of 127 Posts

bluesky636

· #2 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmacmil /forum/post/18106865

So I come to the forum of truth and science. Does a solid state amplifier have to "warm up" (more than say a couple minutes) before it sounds best?

IMHO, no.

K Shep

· #3 · Feb 10, 2010

The sound of my solid state amp doesn't change as it warms up.

Magnefied

· #4 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmacmil /forum/post/18106865

I was browsing a non-AVS speaker forum and a guy was complaining about his speakers being too bright. Several posters suggested it might be the amp and claimed their systems sounded bright when initially turned on but the brightness went away after 30 min or so. They said once the amp warmed up, it sounded less bright, suggesting a frequency response change. I'm sure they were talking about solid state amps (Adcom was one.)

I suggested maybe it was their ears that were adjusting. I am sure I will be roundly denounced as a heretic, know-nothing (certainly possible), and maybe even a communist.

So I come to the forum of truth and science. Does a solid state amplifier have to "warm up" (more than say a couple minutes) before it sounds best?

Sorry to disappoint but you are not a heretic or even a communist. You are right. Your friends are delusional audiophiles which is to say they are looking for answers in all the wrong places.

However, you have a great chance to invent a multipurpose solid state amp chiller/warmer for those audiophiles that prefer a certain sound from their amp. I suggest a large tupperware container that they can place on top of the amp and fill with a mixture of ice and a special Dead Sea salt sold only through you. The chiller could sell for $349.99 and the 16oz bag of salt $79.99. For those who want instant warmth from their amp, just fill the special container with hot water and the special "warming salt" from Tibet. Only $99.99 for the warming salt. Be sure you include instructions that tell your friends to use only deionized water in your device. It will make them feel more special.

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lmacmil

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnefied /forum/post/18107225

Your friends are delusional audiophiles...

I love that term!

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Glimmie

· #6 · Feb 10, 2010

A well designed amplifier should not have a different response or distortion spec across temperature. That said many amps will change slightly after warm particularly with distortion. As the amp heats up the bias points drift somewhat. Good feedback design minimizes this.

Now can any person hear the difference? Well it depends on how much drift there is. And this effect can easliy be measured on the bench so it's not some snake oil theory.

In reality I would expect it not to be audiable. A 100% distortion increase from 0.001% to 0.01% is still not audiable and any modern amp that drifts that much (in a quiescent state that is) has a circuit problem.

Magnefied

· #7 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmacmil /forum/post/18107625

I love that term!

You were on the right track. The human brain has a natural response to adjust sensory input to remove irritations. When you get up for that glass of water in the middle of the night and flick on the light you're blinded at first. But within a few minutes, your brain has adjusted your iris to limit incoming light in your newly brightened surroundings. When you cut a fart it triggers a gag reflex at first but after a few minutes it's not so bad. That's partially because the gas dissipates but also because your brain throttles back sensitivity to the smell of methane. Jump into Cape Cod Bay in early July and you'll be wracked with pain for about ten minutes and then you find that once you acclimate to the cold water, you can stay in for an hour without any real discomfort. Same thing with hearing. If your ears are assaulted with unpleasant sounds, the brain will adjust to make it more pleasing in a relatively short time.

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par4

· #8 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnefied /forum/post/18107225

Sorry to disappoint but you are not a heretic or even a communist. You are right. Your friends are delusional audiophiles which is to say they are looking for answers in all the wrong places.

However, you have a great chance to invent a multipurpose solid state amp chiller/warmer for those audiophiles that prefer a certain sound from their amp. I suggest a large tupperware container that they can place on top of the amp and fill with a mixture of ice and a special Dead Sea salt sold only through you. The chiller could sell for $349.99 and the 16oz bag of salt $79.99. For those who want instant warmth from their amp, just fill the special container with hot water and the special "warming salt" from Tibet. Only $99.99 for the warming salt. Be sure you include instructions that tell your friends to use only deionized water in your device. It will make them feel more special.

More drivel from one of the local geniuses.

Gizmologist

· #9 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/18108664

More drivel from one of the local geniuses.

With tin foil and blue goop being touted as doing anything to improve sound quality, audiophile grade external thermal compensation systems are quite justified.

How can you be a serious audiophile and not see this?

Magnefied

· #10 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/18108664

More drivel from one of the local geniuses.

Thank you.

So you're a flat earther? I mean warm amper? How are the cable lifts working out? Need any more green marker pens? How about some $15,000 speaker cables? RCA cables for $3,000? Exotic polymer isolation pucks? Cones? Power cords for $1,500? Anti jitter box? Wooden phono cartridge body? Exotic wooden blocks to control vibration (my personal favorite)? Hospital grade power outlets? Power conditioners? 65 lb turntable platters?

lmacmil

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie /forum/post/18108433

A well designed amplifier should not have a different response or distortion spec across temperature. That said many amps will change slightly after warm particularly with distortion. As the amp heats up the bias points drift somewhat. Good feedback design minimizes this.

For your reading amusement, here are some of the responses I got questioning if a s.s. amp changed sonically after warming up:

"In some higher end designs components need time to bias up properly to reach maximum linearity. It takes my Aleph about 60 minutes to sound it's best and get settled. The heat sinks go from cold to "can't touch for more than 10 seconds" as the output trannies reach optimum operating temp."

"Not true at all. Some amps change a little bit, some amps completely change. I don't listen to my amp until it's been powered up for at least 45 minutes. The character changes dramatically."

"I don't even do any listening until my amp's been warmed up for a good 20-30 minutes."

And my personal favorite: "The amp still needs to be broken in, give it some time and see if that helps."

I suspect none of these "delusional audiophiles" has any electronics background.

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bluesky636

· #12 · Feb 10, 2010

I can top that.

Some guy on the Audyssey thread claimed he got better results running Audyssey afer he warmed his speakers up for 30 minutes by playing quiet music.

He hasn't been heard from since.

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Gizmologist

· #13 · Feb 10, 2010

Wasn't this the same guy that swore to the National Enquirer that saw a UFO piloted by Elvis dropping off baby Bigfoots all over the northwest?

Magnefied

· #14 · Feb 11, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 /forum/post/18110697

I can top that.

Some guy on the Audyssey thread claimed he got better results running Audyssey afer he warmed his speakers up for 30 minutes by playing quiet music.

He hasn't been heard from since.

That was almost good for a spit take!

dknightd

· #15 · Feb 11, 2010

It can take a couple of minutes for things to warm up, and capacitors to approach full charge. A couple of minutes for one person, might be a couple of seconds for another, and perhaps tens of minutes for somebody else. The process is logarithmic - hard to say when enough is good enough. In the winter I just leave my amp on so I don't have to worry about it coming up to temp and charge (when it is not being used, it still adds heat to my home

. In the summer I try to give it a minute or two. Probably silly, but I think it does make a difference. Hard to do careful ABX testing since once the amp is warm, and the caps are charged - it takes them awhile to get cold and empty again . . .

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Chu Gai

· #16 · Feb 11, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist /forum/post/18111108

Wasn't this the same guy that swore to the National Enquirer that saw a UFO piloted by Elvis dropping off baby Bigfoots all over the northwest?

That was Travolta piloting the UFO. Not Elvis. Everyone knows that.

duvetyne

· #17 · Feb 11, 2010

Quote:
It can take a couple of minutes for things to warm up, and capacitors to approach full charge.

How big are those caps?

Reactions: 1

Gizmologist

· #18 · Feb 11, 2010

Amazing. With all the gear I have used over the years, none had a wait time while the filter caps charged. Since the amp is usually in a quiescent mode on power up, the caps will charge quickly until audio information is present and the PS is under load.

Discharging is also relatively fast depending on the amp design. Many amps have a bleed resistor(s) across the PS filter caps.

bluesky636

· #19 · Feb 11, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd /forum/post/18111712

It can take a couple of minutes for things to warm up, and capacitors to approach full charge. A couple of minutes for one person, might be a couple of seconds for another, and perhaps tens of minutes for somebody else. The process is logarithmic - hard to say when enough is good enough. In the winter I just leave my amp on so I don't have to worry about it coming up to temp and charge (when it is not being used, it still adds heat to my home

. In the summer I try to give it a minute or two. Probably silly, but I think it does make a difference. Hard to do careful ABX testing since once the amp is warm, and the caps are charged - it takes them awhile to get cold and empty again . . .

I turn everything on.

Walk over and select a CD/DVD/BD.

Put it in the tray.

Hit play.

If things aren't warmed up or charged by then, tough.

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duvetyne

· #20 · Feb 11, 2010

Quote:
Amazing.

I know, there are a lot of amazing claims made here...none seem to be based on science though

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