AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a bit confused about this. I have an older Yamaha receiver RX-V757 and I just received the Dances with Wolves Blu-Ray. I had the receiver set to DTS 7.1 even though I only have a 5.1 (2 surrounds, 2 fronts,a center speaker, and a subwoofer) and didn't get hardly any lowend from my sub. If I have this setup for a theater system should I just have it set to Dolby digital instead and in my sound options on the Blu-Ray do the same?

Maybe more info might help a bit. Tonight I tried to get my dances with Wolves to work right. I set it meaning my Blu ray player menu to 7.1 DTS and It worked but just hardly. Now in comparison I tried my other Bluray disc How to train your Dragon and my reciever read Dolby Digital and everything sounded great.

So what i would like to know is why doesn't my DTS sound like my Dolby digital? I even changed the menu on the Dances with Wolves to Dolby english and the movie was dolby digital on the menus but when the movie started all I got was Pro Logic and not Dolby digital, so it sounded lifeless.

Is my receiver not able to handle DTS 7.1 master sound?

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD85 and I have a HDMI cable to my display and a coaxial cable to my receiver, and i do get great Dolby digital with How to train your dragon, but I can't get it with Dances with Wolves. On the reciever is a display and it says Dolby Digital when I have surround sound. I do get it the Dragon movie but what i get with Dances is DTS, which should be the same as Dolbly digital, but it just doesn't sound the same, even though all the speaker icons on my receiver are lit up. the Bass just doesn't seem to be there with Dances, but it thunders in Dragon.

Heres the really weird part, everything sounds great with regular DVD's with Dolby digital, they all sound great, But when I started getting Blu-Ray discs everything seemed to change, they aren't the same as regular DVD's.

Man I'm confused !

Thats the thing I have coaxial, and thats how I have my audio connected, I shouldn't need anything else.

As far as DTS and Dolby digital goes, shouldn't they sound similar? Also theres an option on the Dances with Wolves to have Dolby digital, and when i have it set to that, still no dolby digital.Doesn't all the sound come over the coax connector for the sound?

DTS should sound the same as Dolby Digital shouldn't it? The picture is just amazing, now If I can get the sound working the same way, I'll be all set.

Its this DTS its confusing, at least to me anyways.I just wonder what connecting RCA connectors will get me though, plus as you said leave the coax and the RCA connectors, I thought you needed one or the other?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
If you don't have a 7.1 speaker set-up, you need to configure the receiver as such - it will handle the down conversion to 5.1 from 6.1/7.1 sources (there aren't all that many); be them DTS or Dolby based (unless we're talking about an HD-DVD player via S/PDIF, the decoder will correspond to the codec - e.g. you can't "apply" Dolby to DTS).


It sounds like you may need to set up your Blu-ray player to output a legacy bitstream, and then properly configure your receiver for bass management and channel mapping, if all of that is correct, I'm probably missing part of your question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do have the Blu-ray player setup to output bitstream, but I'm not sure If its legacy or not. I still can't figure out though why it works perfectly with regular DVD's but not with Blu-Rays.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
I would think you need to set the receiver to 5.1 as you have only that many loudspeakers. You set the player to DTS or DD based on your preference. DTS and DD don't sound alike. I prefer DTS as it sends more sound to the surrounds than DD. The receiver then will take the info it gets and process it for the 6 loudspeakers you have. At least that is with an HDMI connection. I am not sure what your digital link will do, but I believe it should work the same way.

Not all movies have the same amount of bass in their mix. You should try to hear DTS and DD with the same movie and see whether you hear a difference and which you prefer.

Hope this helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKreutzer /forum/post/20868056


DTS and DD don't sound alike. I prefer DTS as it sends more sound to the surrounds than DD.

DD 5.1 and DTS are both data compression codecs. They have nothing to do with what gets sent to the surrounds. That's handled by the person doing the audio mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsmooth /forum/post/20866770


I do have the Blu-ray player setup to output bitstream, but I'm not sure If its legacy or not. I still can't figure out though why it works perfectly with regular DVD's but not with Blu-Rays.

The BD85 has separate settings for Dolby and DTS. Are they both set to bitstream?


What are your BD85 audio settings?


What does the receiver display say about the format and number of channels of the arriving audio when playing Dolby and DTS sources?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Settings are Bitstream for both, have to check audio settings. Dolby seems to work fine, but DTS sometimes shows DTS on receiver and sometimes just pro logic with only 2 speaker icons showing, confusing. Yet movie trailers and movie menu are full dolby digital.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsmooth /forum/post/20869711


Settings are Bitstream for both, have to check audio settings. Dolby seems to work fine, but DTS sometimes shows DTS on receiver and sometimes just pro logic with only 2 speaker icons showing, confusing. Yet movie trailers and movie menu are full dolby digital.

As noted in your thread at bluray.com, previews and such are usually D 5.1 or PCM, never DTS. But, if you see ProLogic when the movie starts, that means the player is sending stereo, not DTS, which would account for the poor quality you are experiencing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,327 Posts
The OP said he has a digital coax cable running from his blu ray player to his receiver. This is a limiting factor itself. He can't pass HD audio codecs to his receiver for decoding this way. I'm not sure if his receiver can even decode HD audio codecs or not. If he's letting the player decode the HD audio he will be limited to 2ch PCM if I'm correct. What do you guys think? Am I forgetting anything else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel /forum/post/20870125


The OP said he has a digital coax cable running from his blu ray player to his receiver. This is a limiting factor itself. He can't pass HD audio codecs to his receiver for decoding this way. I'm not sure if his receiver can even decode HD audio codecs or not. If he's letting the player decode the HD audio he will be limited to 2ch PCM if I'm correct. What do you guys think? Am I forgetting anything else?

The player can pass a lossy bitstream output - either the DTS core (Coherent Acoustics) or an AC-3 track. Generally it is said that there isn't much audible difference between the two (of course until I mention it, and then "nobody ever has said that in the history of time"
).


This is the receiver we're talking about: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model


It looks like a DTS-ES/Dolby EX capable unit, that can do 6.1/7.1 output. It has no HDMI inputs, but it does have an 8-ch analog input. The BD85 looks like it has 5.1 analog outputs, so if lossless is really a big deal, connect that way.


As far as via S/PDIF, simply configure the player for Dolby and DTS output, and let the receiver decode it - it can do both with no problem.


I'm curious how "DTS sometimes show other things" is true - how are we assessing what is and isn't "DTS"? Again, if we're talking about Coherent Acoustics, it's not a processing mode. You can't overlay it on a signal. If the player and receiver are properly configured both for I/O and speaker layout, there will be (should be?) no issue here, unless the disc is absolute rubbish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts
bsmooth is not trying to get lossless audio. He is saying the lossy DTS output over coax doesn't sound as good as DD 5.1 or DTS from his old DVD player. But, if he sees ProLogic on his receiver display when the source is DTS, that means the output is stereo and suggests a setup problem with the player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,857 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander
He is saying the lossy DTS output over coax doesn't sound as good as DD 5.1 or DTS from his old DVD player. But, if he sees ProLogic on his receiver display when the source is DTS, that means the output is stereo and suggests a setup problem with the player.
Actually what he originally said here referred to DD not dts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsmooth
I even changed the menu on the Dances with Wolves to Dolby english and the movie was dolby digital on the menus but when the movie started all I got was Pro Logic and not Dolby digital
Dances with Wolves has a dts-HD MA 7.1 and a DD 2.0 track so that's a straight forward simple explanation. I don't know what he said elsewhere, whether the same applies to dts tracks but it helps to name the actual disc and be concise and consistent when posting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca
Actually what he originally said here referred to DD not dts:



Dances with Wolves has a dts-HD MA 7.1 and a DD 2.0 track so that's a straight forward simple explanation. I don't know what he said elsewhere, whether the same applies to dts tracks but it helps to name the actual disc and be concise and consistent when posting.
The OP also has a thread at blu-ray.com, where the DD 2.0 track on Dances has already been discussed. But, it remains unclear in either of these threads whether he is getting DTS or a stereo downmix when playing DTS tracks. If the player output is stereo, it likely means the player DTS setting is PCM or the HDMI handshake with the TV is telling the player to decode and downmix to stereo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Here are my settings on my Panasonic DMP-BD85:

Setup

Audio Settings

Dynamic range - Off

Digital Audio Output - Dolby B and DTS set to Bitstream

BD Secondary Audio - On

PCM Down Conversion - On

Downmix - Stereo (wasn't sure where this should be set as I think it pertains to only the display)

7.1 Channel Audio reformatting - Auto

High Clarity Sound - Disable

Audio Delay - 0ms

TV/Device Connection

HDMI video - On

HDMI resolution - Auto

24P Output - Off

HDMI Color Mode - YCbCr (4:4:4)

HDMI Audio Output - On

Viera link - On

Deep Color - Auto

Contents Flag - Auto


Hope this helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,573 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsmooth /forum/post/20874259


Here are my settings on my Panasonic DMP-BD85:

Setup

Audio Settings

Dynamic range - Off

Digital Audio Output - Dolby B and DTS set to Bitstream
BD Secondary Audio - On

Hope this helps

Hi Bsmooth, try turning BD Secondary Audio to off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts
Secondary audio should not matter when using coax. The player will decode the track, mix in secondary audio, and then re-encode it for bitstream output. It won't hurt to turn off secondary audio, but it shouldn't make any difference either way.


The one setting that might need to be changed is HDMI Audio, if he is getting stereo instead of DTS. The HDMI handshake with a TV may force decoding for stereo output, regardless of the bitstream setting.


bsmooth - when you play a DTS track, what format arrives at the AVR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,857 Posts
If HDMI audio output is set to active, then the TV is getting audio in addition to HT system. Surely it shouldn't be happening in the first place.


If player-TV HDMI handshake dictates what the SPDIF (without HDCP) outputs and results in downmixing to 2CH then I think this is bad design or implementation. What if the display is a monitor (like the Pioneer I have), does HDMI dictates that the player outputs no audio at all? You see that's complete nonsense. Some players (like Pioneer) only lets you choose one audio option from HDMI, digital or analog, now it makes sense.


Even if the above is really happening, it still doesn't fully explain why this is happening with some dts BDs and not others as the OP keeps suggesting. The implication is, sometimes HDMI handshake between the same components says it's OK to output MCH, sometimes only 2CH. Sounds very bizarre to me.


We were told Dances with Wolves outputs MCH dts in the first post, with DTS and multiple speakers icons showing on the AVR display: unless we are told which dts disc only outputs 2CH, I personally think it does not warrant further investigation, as I'm not sure if it's really happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,169 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca
If HDMI audio output is set to active, then the TV is getting audio in addition to HT system. Surely it shouldn't be happening in the first place.
That would be preferable for people who want to choose between using their theater system or TV speakers.

Quote:
If player-TV HDMI handshake dictates what the SPDIF (without HDCP) outputs and results in downmixing to 2CH then I think this is bad design or implementation. What if the display is a monitor (like the Pioneer I have), does HDMI dictates that the player outputs no audio at all? You see that's complete nonsense. Some players (like Pioneer) only lets you choose one audio option from HDMI, digital or analog, now it makes sense.
It may be a bad design. But, it's not uncommon. I see more than a few posts from people who get unexpected stereo outputs because of the audio handshake with a TV.

Quote:
Even if the above is really happening, it still doesn't fully explain why this is happening with some dts BDs and not others as the OP keeps suggesting. The implication is, sometimes HDMI handshake between the same components says it's OK to output MCH, sometimes only 2CH. Sounds very bizarre to me.
It is possible that the TV will accept DD 5.1, which is used on broadcast TV, but not DTS.

Quote:
We were told Dances with Wolves outputs MCH dts in the first post, with DTS and multiple speakers icons showing on the AVR display: unless we are told which dts disc only outputs 2CH, I personally think it does not warrant further investigation, as I'm not sure if it's really happening.
I am also unclear about what happens when the OP plays a BD or DVD with a DTS track. The answer would be helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,857 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander
It may be a bad design. But, it's not uncommon. I see more than a few posts from people who get unexpected stereo outputs because of the audio handshake with a TV.
Aren't those cases player-HDMI-AVR-HDMI-display? You are saying there are definite cases affecting SPDIF too? Are they Panasonic players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander
It is possible that the TV will accept DD 5.1, which is used on broadcast TV, but not DTS.
That still doesn't explain why the OP says sometimes MCH dts can output MCH dts and other dts discs only 2CH (thus Pro-Logic).


BIslander, I admire your tireless effort in threads like this and especially in this case you're doubling your effort in tracking and responding to a duplicate thread elsewhere, which I'm not inclined to do. Moreover, you are also dealing with and often correcting other people's inaccurate responses to avoid further confusion!
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top