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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone used an A/V receiver equipped with Dolby ProLogic II? I'm anxious to know what it does for two channel sources on CDs, LPs, video cassettes and satellite TV films and shows. I'd be interested in hearing what kind of A/V equipment you used for this new mode. Thanks, Spurge
 

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Well I have Logic 7 on a Harmon kardon receiver which is the closet thing to dpl 2 and It really is great. DPL2 has actually been rated to be very good, and close to Logic 7. It takes the information from 2 channel stereo and applies it to the rear based on the speaker and what direction the sound was actually situated. For example you take a typical stereo song and throughout the imaging you realize that the sound was projected to a phantom side of you. DPL2 and Logic 7 takes that sound and sends it to the rear which can be argued that that's where the sound was intended to go. Logic 7 and DPL2 has both been rated as the most accurate source for this. If you get a receiver with either format, and soon Harman Kardon will have both AVR520, you won't go wrong. I have never watched anything in old prologic again.

Logic 7 also works with EX setups. I was suprised when I left the rear center channel on and I heard complete 3 way seperation. Satellite was the best test for this. You know what, I think I'll post my results to this so look for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ROMEO 1
Well I have Logic 7 on a Harmon kardon receiver which is the closet thing to dpl 2 and It really is great. DPL2 has actually been rated to be very good, and close to Logic 7. It takes the information from 2 channel stereo and applies it to the rear based on the speaker and what direction the sound was actually situated. For example you take a typical stereo song and throughout the imaging you realize that the sound was projected to a phantom side of you. DPL2 and Logic 7 takes that sound and sends it to the rear which can be argued that that's where the sound was intended to go. Logic 7 and DPL2 has both been rated as the most accurate source for this. If you get a receiver with either format, and soon Harman Kardon will have both AVR520, you won't go wrong. I have never watched anything in old prologic again.

Logic 7 also works with EX setups. I was suprised when I left the rear center channel on and I heard complete 3 way seperation. Satellite was the best test for this. You know what, I think I'll post my results to this so look for it.
 

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Spurge,


I have heard DPL II in the best way possible. I demo'ed Jim Fosgate's reference system at his residence. Jim played it trough tube and solid state. The tube he built from scratch and the solid state was a Tag that Dolby sent to him. All I can say is that DPL II is incredible. It brightens the soundstage on 2 channel material like you would not imagine. Jim has 6 panels built in his theater room (2 front, 2 sides, and 2 rears). He played a variety of 2 channel material that sounded like it was coming from every panel in the room; but he did not even have the side panels connected. He played 2 channel recordings that made the artist sound like they were right in the room with us. It is an incredible technology. I have a Denon with DPL II but have not had a chance to listen in my own environment (building my room now), but I would no hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking to enhance there 2 channel listening environment.


C. Hamilton :D
 

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Using a Kenwood VR-507 with DPL 2 and so far I love what it does for Pro Logic TV broadcasts (makes me feel like I'm right in the middle of the ballpark ;))


For music, it's a bit of a mixed bag, for soft rock/country it does a failrly good job on the PL2 music setting, but I find for things like jazz & classical music I perfer the VR-507's DSP modes because in PL2 they sound too... *fake* for lack of a better term.


Just my .02cents CDN (Which translates into something less than zero US :mad: )
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
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Originally posted by C. Hamilton
Spurge,


I have heard DPL II in the best way possible. I demo'ed Jim Fosgate's reference system at his residence. Jim played it trough tube and solid state. The tube he built from scratch and the solid state was a Tag that Dolby sent to him. All I can say is that DPL II is incredible. It brightens the soundstage on 2 channel material like you would not imagine. Jim has 6 panels built in his theater room (2 front, 2 sides, and 2 rears). He played a variety of 2 channel material that sounded like it was coming from every panel in the room; but he did not even have the side panels connected. He played 2 channel recordings that made the artist sound like they were right in the room with us. It is an incredible technology. I have a Denon with DPL II but have not had a chance to listen in my own environment (building my room now), but I would no hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking to enhance there 2 channel listening environment.


C. Hamilton :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That sounds very impressive. I 've got to audition it myself. I'm interested in a new A/V receiver from Yamaha that was advertised on their Japan site but has not yet been released in North America.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by NefCanuck
Using a Kenwood VR-507 with DPL 2 and so far I love what it does for Pro Logic TV broadcasts (makes me feel like I'm right in the middle of the ballpark ;))


For music, it's a bit of a mixed bag, for soft rock/country it does a failrly good job on the PL2 music setting, but I find for things like jazz & classical music I perfer the VR-507's DSP modes because in PL2 they sound too... *fake* for lack of a better term.


Just my .02cents CDN (Which translates into something less than zero US :mad: )
Does the Kenwood VR-507 have the full complement of PL2 adjustments for music? If not, that may be why you're not realizing the full potential of PL2. Most people feel just the opposite that DSP sounds fake compared to PL2 or for that matter against older technologies such as 6-Axis or Logic 7.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by cwood



Does the Kenwood VR-507 have the full complement of PL2 adjustments for music? If not, that may be why you're not realizing the full potential of PL2. Most people feel just the opposite that DSP sounds fake compared to PL2 or for that matter against older technologies such as 6-Axis or Logic 7.
I have this player, and AFAIK it has all the adjustments. Panarama, dimension, center width.

I love it. It really does what it promises.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by cwood



Does the Kenwood VR-507 have the full complement of PL2 adjustments for music? If not, that may be why you're not realizing the full potential of PL2. Most people feel just the opposite that DSP sounds fake compared to PL2 or for that matter against older technologies such as 6-Axis or Logic 7.
I've read the manual and seen the adjustments for the PL2 Music mode, but given the way I've been constantly fiddling with the test tones to try and get a matched sound level out of the speakers I'm afraid that if I start messing around with the PL2 Music settings I'll never actually *listen* to anything ;)


(What I need is another set of ears, I swear mine can't match the level on a test tone for beans :mad:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by NefCanuck



I've read the manual and seen the adjustments for the PL2 Music mode, but given the way I've been constantly fiddling with the test tones to try and get a matched sound level out of the speakers I'm afraid that if I start messing around with the PL2 Music settings I'll never actually *listen* to anything ;)


(What I need is another set of ears, I swear mine can't match the level on a test tone for beans :mad:
The easy solution for channel level matching is the RS SPL meter. Used universally by almost every installer and HT owner...even used at the ranch by THX folks.
 

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Quote:
Thanks very much, Romeo. I had never heard of Logic 7. Where can I learn about it? Spurge
Sorry for getting back so late, Logic 7 is a processing system like 6-axis founded by Jim Fosgate. It does the same thing as DPLII which takes sounds from existing stereo or dpl material and uses an algorithim that sends it to the rear surround speaker it was intended to go. My understanding that DPLII responds faster than Logic 7, but the test I've read so far on different forums lead me to believe that there's not much of difference between the two. Please further note that Logic 7 is available on Lexicon processors and Harman Kardon receivers.
 

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The key is Logic 7 is proprietary, while DPLII is an industry standard .


What this means to you and most consumers, is that you will be able to get DPLII on many manufacturers receivers and pre-pros.


This means you don't have to take what Lexicon or HK thinks you need with their Logic 7, but rather you can select a component with DPLII that meets all your other needs (features, price, etc.) from among many different manufacturers.


BruceD
 

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I have an Onkyo 989 which was upgraded to DPLII. I am amazed at the sound from 2 channel sources. I don't think it sounds "gimmicky" but truly increases the sound stage. Vocals are focused and clear. The best $50 upgrade I've ever encountered.
 

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My DPLII setup includes Onkyo 797 with Polk RT800 fronts, CS400 center, f/x500 surrounds, & RT35i rear surround. DPLII nicely eliminates the garbled sound that typically eminates from the surrounds in 2-channel audio with original DPL. There's also far greater localization of vocals to the center channel and much improved use of the sub. However don't expect miracles from 2-channel audio.


I've calibrated my speakers according to Video Essentials, and generally hear very little sound coming from the surrounds while watching TV. Furthermore, I'm a disappointed with the surround sound even from Dolby Surround encoded video games, such as Madden 2002 on PS2. It is certainly better than DPL, but not the "near 5.1" experience I had hoped for.


To be fair, I haven't tried DPL-encoded VHS tapes as I've given the old HI-FI VCR to the kids. (What happened to Pro Logic-encoded video games and TV shows, such as Colony Wars and X-Files? I haven't seen the Dolby Pro Logic symbol advertised on either medium in quite a while.) Again with DPLII, all vocals, bass, and surround ambiance are much cleaner and better focused to the center, sub, and surround speakers respectively.


Regarding music, DPLII is a huge improvement over DPL. However I prefer DTS Neo:6 for music since it has a much wider soundstage. IMO, DPLII tends to send too much sound to the center channel. (This level can be adjusted, but I quickly gravitated to Neo:6.)


It's a nice improvement, but I wouldn't yet throw away your one or two year old receivers just for DPLII, and would strongly consider grabbing a DPL1 model at a bargain if it had Neo:6 or Logic 7 and/or if 5.1 represented a majority of my listening.


P.S. I love the 797, but wish the 898 was in my budget for the THX-EX correct TWO rear surround amps. The single rear can be a bit distracting rather than enveloping with EX/ES soundtracks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi JEHELMES, your post was very informative. I recently heard from Yamaha that their PLI "extended" does some of what PLII does: it directs 20-20K signals to the surround speakers along with the restricted mono signal. This improves both movie and music sound, but from what you say PLII would do this much better. I am currently using a Yamaha RX-V890, which has a really fine amplifier, but it has no 5.1 because it has only PLI, so I suppose I could expect a great improvement from both DD and PLII?
 
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