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Hi Dominic, I am not sure how to get the ATV to output HDR10 from a DV source without doing a conversion. Like @claw said up top, the ATV does not send a separate HDR10 source for non-DV Displays, while other streamers DO source different DV and HDR10 versions from Netflix. Prior to taking the photos, I did a fresh (JVC) autocal to address any gamma droop---which there was a noticeable amount---followed by adjusting white point with Chromapure/i1D3. The only way I can think of conducting a HDR10 vs LLDV comparison is by using UHD Discs with both versions of encoding. I have already done that and I found the LLDV, in those cases, were plagued with an ever present red tint. As a result, I have completely abandoned LLDV via UHD Players--- until and unless someone comes up with a way to truly defeat the dreaded red tint. BTW, your custom color profile does an amazing job in mitigating this problem!! In the meantime, there is an abundance of DV sources on Netflix, Disney+ and Prime to keep me and my ATV4K occupied indefinitely :D
Unless someone with a “true” DV TV can confirm otherwise, I will have to assume the ATV conversion does not have any glaring issues.
 

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Wow.. so would u say it looks better than regular hdr 10.. I still the apple TV and vertex sitting in their box waiting for you guys to figure it out. I don't want to be testing I just want to plug and play...

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Insofar as the ATV4K goes, I can say that I like what I see when watching DV sources from Netflix, Disney and the like. I cannot say the same for LLDV on UHD Discs using any of the recommended UHD players (Sony X800M2 and X700). It's a bit difficult to do a direct and proper comparison via the ATV 4K, without having to do a conversion from DV to HDR10. However, out of curiosity, I briefly compared a few scenes from UHD Discs played back in HDR10 mode to the streamed DV version over the ATV and, in many cases, I did prefer the LLDV results. Since you already have the necessary equipment, it is well worth doing the experiment.
 

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Insofar as the ATV4K goes, I can say that I like what I see when watching DV sources from Netflix, Disney and the like. I cannot say the same for LLDV on UHD Discs using any of the recommended UHD players (Sony X800M2 and X700). It's a bit difficult to do a direct and proper comparison via the ATV 4K, without having to do a conversion from DV to HDR10. However, out of curiosity, I briefly compared a few scenes from UHD Discs played back in HDR10 mode to the streamed DV version over the ATV and, in many cases, I did prefer the LLDV results. Since you already have the necessary equipment, it is well worth doing the experiment.
Thank you. I will get around to it maybe over the holidays but I don't have any experience with vertex and it does look a little complicated. Right now I just dont feel like breaking my head..

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Thank you. I will get around to it maybe over the holidays but I don't have any experience with vertex and it does look a little complicated. Right now I just dont feel like breaking my head..

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I know what you mean bro, I felt the same way when I got my vertex2. But with the likes of @claw, @Dominic Chan, @Mark Swift and @Bytehoven you should be well covered.
 

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Hi Dominic, I am not sure how to get the ATV to output HDR10 from a DV source without doing a conversion. Like @claw said up top, the ATV does not send a separate HDR10 source for non-DV Displays, while other streamers DO source different DV and HDR10 versions from Netflix. Prior to taking the photos, I did a fresh (JVC) autocal to address any gamma droop---which there was a noticeable amount---followed by adjusting white point with Chromapure/i1D3. The only way I can think of conducting a HDR10 vs LLDV comparison is by using UHD Discs with both versions of encoding. I have already done that and I found the LLDV, in those cases, were plagued with an ever present red tint. As a result, I have completely abandoned LLDV via UHD Players--- until and unless someone comes up with a way to truly defeat the dreaded red tint. BTW, your custom color profile does an amazing job in mitigating this problem!! In the meantime, there is an abundance of DV sources on Netflix, Disney+ and Prime to keep me and my ATV4K occupied indefinitely :D
What you see from the ATV4K is the reason I only use the LLDV trick with the ATV4K. The vast majority of ATV4K HDR content is Dolby Vision. I would expect that a Dolby Vision source output as LLDV should be better than an HDR10 source converted by a player to Dolby Vision then output as LLDV.
 
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What you see from the ATV4K is the reason I only use the LLDV trick with the ATV4K. The vast majority of ATV4K HDR content is Dolby Vision. I would expect that a Dolby Vision source output as LLDV should be better than an HDR10 source converted by a player to Dolby Vision then output as LLDV.
My question was somewhat different; i.e., whether the differences I see on the JVC between HDR10 and DV is due to the ATV converting DV to HDR, or due to the JVC not correctly displaying the spoofed DV.
 

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My question was somewhat different; i.e., whether the differences I see on the JVC between HDR10 and DV is due to the ATV converting DV to HDR, or due to the JVC not correctly displaying the spoofed DV.
It may be a misconception to assume HDR10 and LLDV should be displayed with the same calibration. It is close, but the profile 5 layer stream is unique and ought to be worthy of our respect, in so far as the calibration requires some specific accomodation to achieve best results. If we fail to make that effort, it can hardly be the fault of the LLDV stream.

It is frustrating, stumbling around in the dark without any guide posts that might come from a better understanding of what the profile 5 layer is doing. Particularly when it comes to how or why the profile 5 layer stream produces varying results with HDR10 content.
 

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It may be a misconception to assume HDR10 and LLDV should be displayed with the same calibration. It is close, but the profile 5 layer stream is unique and ought to be worthy of our respect, in so far as the calibration requires some specific accomodation to achieve best results. If we fail to make that effort, it can hardly be the fault of the LLDV stream.

It is frustrating, stumbling around in the dark without any guide posts that might come from a better understanding of what the profile 5 layer is doing. Particularly when it comes to how or why the profile 5 layer stream produces varying results with HDR10 content.
That is the question I’m asking myself; i.e., are there any advantages in spoofing the ATV4K to send LLDV to the JVC.

When I have time I’ll run tests using UHD DV discs. At least I know in that case the HDR10 image has proper calibration.
 

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It may be a misconception to assume HDR10 and LLDV should be displayed with the same calibration.
I have been using the very same settings/calibration to watch HDR10 and LLDV without any ill effects---at least with the ATV4K. Only time I saw anomalies was when I used the spoof on DV UHD Discs and, especially, when converting HDR10 to LLDV.
 

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That is the question I’m asking myself; i.e., are there any advantages in spoofing the ATV4K to send LLDV to the JVC.

When I have time I’ll run tests using UHD DV discs. At least I know in that case the HDR10 image has proper calibration.
I just tried Mortal Engines on my UB820 and the results are very similar to those on the ATV4K - LLDV is more saturated.
 

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It may be a misconception to assume HDR10 and LLDV should be displayed with the same calibration. It is close, but the profile 5 layer stream is unique and ought to be worthy of our respect, in so far as the calibration requires some specific accomodation to achieve best results. If we fail to make that effort, it can hardly be the fault of the LLDV stream.

It is frustrating, stumbling around in the dark without any guide posts that might come from a better understanding of what the profile 5 layer is doing. Particularly when it comes to how or why the profile 5 layer stream produces varying results with HDR10 content.
Again, I would assume the varying results come from trying to fit LPT into a CIE colour space - firstly we don't know the spec of the Dolby specific LPT colour space and secondly, assuming we knew the specifics, there'd then be no way to apply the required 3D LUT to do the transform.

That is the question I’m asking myself; i.e., are there any advantages in spoofing the ATV4K to send LLDV to the JVC.

When I have time I’ll run tests using UHD DV discs. At least I know in that case the HDR10 image has proper calibration.
I haven't got an ATV4K so can't comment on its idiosyncrasies, but I do have a Shield.

This can provide the native DV stream, HDR10 stream or SDR stream depending on source and settings, but by far the best results (and I mean by a long way) with my projector is to set it to simply serve the Rec.709 streams only and forget about HDR.

That way you know you're in the correct colour space, gamma is easy with no compression and the grade is spot on. (also no resyncs!)
 

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Vertex settings: Automix, LLDV EDID 8 LG C8 etc. There were NO red tint to the image and, like I said, the pictures just don't do justice to what I see on screen. I am convinced that the ATV is doing something different/better than the disc players (Panny UB820 and Sony X800M2) as the results are completely different.
Based on @claw’s previous post, the EDID bank selection is ignored if you use Automix.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-high-dynamic-range-hdr-wide-color-gamut-wcg/3097934-dolby-vision-including-hdr10-conversion-w-dtm-projectors-15.html#post58915728
 

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While using "Automix," I also checked off "LLDV FORCED DV" so I know I am getting LLDV either way. Prior to using Automix, I was using "Custom" with EDID 8 selected so the (Custom) screen remained populated with EDID 8---even though it is technically not used. I guess I should not have mentioned what was in my Custom settings since that would be entirely ignored once I switched to Automix. Just to be sure, the info screen on the Vertex2 indicated the source was DV and the output was also DV. Sorry for the confusion.
 

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If you are running the ATV4K through the Oppo, there is no need to set the Oppo to Force Dolby Vision. The Oppo should pass through the ATV4K LLDV untouched since you must be in Oppo HDMI IN BYPASS mode to pass Dolby Vision. Note: I have never tried passing LLDV through my Oppo, only full Dolby Vision.

You will need to use your Javs custom curve even for LLDV. Or some other HDR gamma curve. You can't use your SDR BT2020 picture mode or other non HDR picture mode. The colors would not be correct; worse than just a red tint.
I have not read all 500+ posts here, but came across the above and panicked a little.

I ordered a Vertex 2 with hope that it could fix some handshake issues and allow me to try DV content, but I am concerned about this comment about requiring passthrough mode in the Oppo. Does that mean Source Direct mode? In that case I will not be able to use the Oppo to do anamorphic 21:9 mode with DV content passed through from ATV4K, right?

Will my JVC rs540 projector's internal anamorphic scaling still work? It is limited to 4k30, so is there a way I can have the Vertex2 limit the ATV4K to 4k24 or 4k30, but not force one or the other?
 

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I just tried Mortal Engines on my UB820 and the results are very similar to those on the ATV4K - LLDV is more saturated.
Totally agree with you about the UB820 and spoofing UHD Discs--it just does not look right. With regard to the ATV4K however, for some unknown reason we are getting noticeably different results. Could the Vertex2 be doing something different than the Vertex1? Is it possible that Automix (with LLDV Forced DV selected) instead of Custom is responsible for the difference? What are your ATV settings?

BTW, your custom color profile does a fantastic job with reducing the red tint as seen in the last set of pictures you posted (Mortal Engines).
 

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Discussion Starter #578
Totally agree with you about the UB820 and spoofing UHD Discs--it just does not look right. With regard to the ATV4K however, for some unknown reason we are getting noticeably different results. Could the Vertex2 be doing something different than the Vertex1? Is it possible that Automix (with LLDV Forced DV selected) instead of Custom is responsible for the difference? What are your ATV settings?

BTW, your custom color profile does a fantastic job with reducing the red tint as seen in the last set of pictures you posted (Mortal Engines).
The ub820 does not have DV LLDV support. You can trick into outputting DV, but not with the profile 5 layer stream you can get from ATV4K, 203/205 and x800m2/1100es. That's one reason the ATV4K is better, as is the x800m2 bd player.
 

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The ub820 does not have DV LLDV support. You can trick into outputting DV, but not with the profile 5 layer stream you can get from ATV4K, 203/205 and x800m2/1100es. That's one reason the ATV4K is better, as is the x800m2 bd player.
Pretty sure the UB820 does have LLDV support for Dolby Vision content. It just does not have the capability to force Dolby Vision and thus LLDV from HDR10 or SDR sources.
 

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Pretty sure the UB820 does have LLDV support for Dolby Vision content.
I believe so. When I first tried DV (not LLDV) my screen would go "crazy" with weird colours, and it still does if I asked the Vertex to force DV. With EDID5 the UB820 indicates Dolby Vision and yet screen is not messed up.

As a separate question, one thing strange about my Vertex 1 is that if I switch EDID from 5 back to 1 or 11, it still outputs LLDV. I have to explicitly tell it to disable DV.
 
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