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Discussion Starter #61
The Integral has an issue with sound in this setup. With Integral 2 and Linker(!) I get picture and sound. The X800M2 info screen is identical regardless of which HDfury is in the chain. The Integral 2 OSD shows 12bit DV. So I guess it is working. ;)
The top line of your Integral2 read out saying DV 12bit, shows it's working! :grin:

That’s great news! I use ATV a lot and many DV shows are very dark. What settings do you use on the Linker to make this work?
The linker can not do the needed DV LLDV EDID. The HDFury devices that support the Sony A1 LLDV EDID are, Vertex, Integral2 (basically a Vertex), Vertex2, Diva and Maestro. I'd note the Vertex2, Diva and Maestro benefit from more robust LLDV features, which I have not been able to test, but sound like they might be worth the extra $$$ if planning to use LLDV support for the longer run or as part of a more elaborate HT automation configuration.
 

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That’s great news! I use ATV a lot and many DV shows are very dark. What settings do you use on the Linker to make this work?
After doing a factory reset, I uploaded the LG C8 EDID into the custom memory. That was basically all.
I also tried the Sony A1 custom EDID, which I exported from the Integral 2. That also worked.

But my Linker never functioned stable. After a few HDMI handshakes, I have to reset it. So if I decide, I want to have LLDV, I have to use another HDfury.
I'm still not quite sure, how to integrate this into my setup. Although using the HDR10 static preset on my NX9 and selecting it manually may work, Frame Adapt or the Radiance DTM would be my favourite way. But for that I would need the HDR flag. Surely, I can force it via HDfury. But then it will always be sent. I think an option like 'Use custom HDR ... when input is LLDV' on the newer HDfurys would be useful for this.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
I'm still not quite sure, how to integrate this into my setup. Although using the HDR10 static preset on my NX9 and selecting it manually may work, Frame Adapt or the Radiance DTM would be my favourite way. But for that I would need the HDR flag. Surely, I can force it via HDfury. But then it will always be sent. I think an option like 'Use custom HDR ... when input is LLDV' on the newer HDfurys would be useful for this.
This is a good example of an extra LLDV support feature that comes with the Vertex2, Diva and Maestro, but cant be added to the older devices due to memory limitations.

You probably already have this link, but incase not ... HDFury Thread - Last Post
 

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This is a good example of an extra LLDV support feature that comes with the Vertex2, Diva and Maestro, but cant be added to the older devices due to memory limitations.

You probably already have this link, but incase not ... HDFury Thread - Last Post
Thank you. I will probably return the Integral 2 and order a Vertex 2. Then I should be safe if there could/would be such an LLDV support.
 
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Discussion Starter #66
I thought the Integral2 was one of the newer devices. Same as Vertex but without the OLED display?
That is my understanding.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Bytehoven on AVS: said:
The DV LLDV hack is limited to source devices that support LLDV, which I listed as I understand them to be. Since the ub9000 can not be forced to do LLDV, hang tight.
Dave saw and replied

HarperVision... said:
I don’t believe this is entirely true. On UHD Dolby Vision capable players that do not have the capability to force Dolby Vision processing on the output like the Sony and Oppo do, then those will still be able to send out a native player led Dolby Vision signal (LLDV) source to the vertex, as long as they’ve received the proper firmware updates to do so. The only difference is that on the players that you can force Dolby Vision processing then you can also convert HDR10 sources to Dolby Vision as well.

So you can still add native DolbyVision support to a projector or display that technically doesn’t support it and only supports HDR10. You would just have to continue to use your current HDR10 solution for those sources.

Of course if it were me just starting out with this, I would just at a minimum invest in a Sony X700 which can force DV and will be at amazing Black Friday pricing in the USA. That’s the Sony I have here for testing against the Oppo 203 and it’s simply amazing. NFL football and Venom last night were utterly jaw dropping!!!
Thanks Dave.
 

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Dave saw and replied
I don’t understand this. If the player does not “do” LLDV and simply passes it through to the downstream devices (which also don’t do LLDV), then who is doing the required scene-by-scene processing?
 

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I thought the Integral2 was one of the newer devices. Same as Vertex but without the OLED display?
My understanding is that it’s the same as Vertex without the OLED, but not the same as the Vertex2.
 

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Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
I don’t understand this. If the player does not “do” LLDV and simply passes it through to the downstream devices (which also don’t do LLDV), then who is doing the required scene-by-scene processing?
OK, I just did a quick test with the UB820 so pardon the pic quality. :)

Here is Captain Marvel a non DV title.


Here is Ready Player 1 a DV title.


You can see the 820 is sending a HDR signal with Captain Marvel and a DV signal with ready Player 1. Clearly the ub820 is doing something different with the DV mastered title.

I need to compare RP1 via the UB820 vs the x800m2 to see if there are any differences, to make sure the Vertex is not labeling the RP1 output as DV when it might be HDR.
 

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RS520 ST2084 vs PQ Curve

I have done some measurements of the JVC ST2084 Curve on my RS520, and compared the response to the standard PQ curve. The values are normalized relative to the 50% stimulus (reference white).

Here are some observations:

1. The shadows are very dark - only about 40% of the reference value. at 10% stimulus.
2. Boosting the WRGB Dark Levels to +7 [EDIT: It was +10] greatly exceeds the reference shadow level.
3. The Contrast control lifts the entire curve up, resulting in clipping at a lower level (although still above 1000 nits, at +7 contrast)
 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
I have done some measurements of the JVC ST2084 Curve on my RS520, and compared the response to the standard PQ curve. The values are normalized relative to the 50% stimulus (reference white).

Here are some observations:

1. The shadows are very dark - only about 40% of the reference value. at 10% stimulus.
2. Boosting the WRGB Dark Levels to +7 greatly exceeds the reference shadow level.
3. The Contrast control lifts the entire curve up, resulting in clipping at a lower level (although still above 1000 nits, at +7 contrast)
Thanks for this info.

Dominic... what is your source setup? Which player? I'm not sure if it matters, but I'm curious is you might be able to see and measure inherent differences between the 203 and one of the Sony players?

Can you find a combination of WRGB DL which works better? +7 on WRGB would be pretty dramatic. How about +4/+5 all around?

I'm also curious how a well tuned curve while increasing Contrast, could work to better iron issues on both ends? I thought Zombie did this, but he was not specific.

Or what keeping Contrast closer to = 0 and playing with st2084 Picture Tone & BL values instead?

Can you determine what, if any range luminance compression LLDV might be doing, such that any peak white values mastered above MaxCLL of 1000 nits, are being mapped down?

I need to revisit some of Javs work on his HDR mapping, for the movie time stamps, to look for highlight clipping.
 

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Thanks for this info.

Dominic... what is your source setup? Which player? I'm not sure if it matters, but I'm curious is you might be able to see and measure inherent differences between the 203 and one of the Sony players?
I should have clarified that the measurements were done with HCFR internal test patterns, not an LLDV source. However, my understanding is that they all follow the PQ curve.

Can you find a combination of WRGB DL which works better? +7 on WRGB would be pretty dramatic. How about +4/+5 all around?
+7 on white alone (without RGB) already boosts the shadows to 150%.

Note that DL actually affects a very wide band, raising even the reference white level.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Results are in...

The x800m2 does a better job with DV LLD DTM on a DV title than the ub820.

Test was Ready Player One. The advantage was the x800m2 preserved more specular highlights, while maintaining similar peak white lumens, which at the same settings on the x990, the ub820 was crushing highlights in a way that even lowering the x990 master contrast could not resolve.

Reds were also a tad more saturated on the ub820.

I used Chads curve for both playbacks.

Not sure why the ub820 would be treating the upper luminance range differently, except that maybe its not as well tuned a LLDV mode as the Sony, which is designed to do so.

Sorry to have a sad report, but it does simplify the question regarding DV mastered titles playback.
 

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I wonder, how the nVidia Shield TV Pro (2019) handles LLDV - if it handles LLDV at all...
 
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bobof said:
This Vendor specific Video Data CEA Timing Extension in the EDID is I'm almost certain where all the Dolby Vision capabilities are stored (0x00D046 is Dolby's IEEE OUI). Understanding the makeup of this extension might open up interesting experimentation possibilities, perhaps allowing the display peak nits being targeted by LLDV to be edited. Does anyone have a good collection of all available LLDV EDIDs? By comparing the content of this block across different displays we may be able to glean useful information, or at least be able to target certain bits / bytes for experimentation.
@bobof

I compared the Dolby block of all custom EDID memories of the Integral 2. They are identical. :confused:
 
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@bobof

I compared the Dolby block of all custom EDID memories of the Integral 2. They are identical. :confused:
What is most interesting I guess is to compare real DV TV EDIDs to see what the blocks look like, see if they are reporting different max luminance. Then hacking the EDID to make a custom low luminance, then measuring before and after with some DV test charts to see if the LLDV tone mapping behaviour changes.
 

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This is a good example of an extra LLDV support feature that comes with the Vertex2, Diva and Maestro, but cant be added to the older devices due to memory limitations.
It's already implemented. Nice! :cool:
 

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I thought the Integral2 was one of the newer devices. Same as Vertex but without the OLED display?
Just saw a post from HDfury that the Integral2 has the same memory size as the original Integral and Vertex. Those devices have no more memory available for HDfury to add new features. So take that into consideration.

New generation of HDfury devices:

Vertex2 with two full time 4K60 600MHz HDMI outputs plus one Audio only HDMI output to connect to AVRs that don't support either 4K, HDR10, or DV pass though.

Diva with one 4K60 600MHz HDMI output and one 1080P HDMI output that supports 4K HDR10 to 1080P SDR conversion.

Maestro which is an HDBaseT solution.

Vertex2 would seem the best option for most.
 
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