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Discussion Starter #1
Hi.

First post at the forum, but I`ll try to describe the problem.

I have recently bought and built 2 full martys with Dayton audio UM18-22 18".
They are connected in 4 ohm to a Behringer NX6000D that I allso just bought. Behringer is bragging of 3200W pr channel in 4ohm, I guess I`m getting about 3-400W out of it (wild guess from volume on subwoofers).
From before I have 4x Klipsch RF115SW subwoofers.

Since I`ve read so many extremely positive things about the UM18-22 18, full marty and behringer combo, I wanted that to be the first part of my home built cinema.

I now have klipsche RF7II connected to 2 Crown XTI2002`s bridged, and full atmos klipsch set connected to a Onkyo 3030.

The problem is that the Behringer hits the limiter without producing much sound, the 4x klipsch subs play a LOT louder than the UM18-22 18, and they are "only" 600W pr sub...
Allso, when I go to the sound setting on my reciever and choose sub 1 or 2, the klipsch subs are a lot louder than the martys (RF115SW are set to half volume on subs, 0 gain on onkyo), but the behringer clips on signal in to the amp as well as the power out.

Hope there is anyone out there that can give me any advice on how to make the UM18-22 18 play as loud as people say they do? :)

Btw, the room is big, about 1100 sq ft.

Any advice/tips are greatly appreciated :D
 

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What filters do you have setup on the NX DSP? Also, are the cones moving a lot or not at all on the UMs? Did you check the limiter setting on the amps DSP? What is the position of the input sensitivity knobs on the front?
 

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The Crown XTI's are a horrible amplifier.

That said, 4 UM-18's should be about 50% louder than 4 Klipsch 15's, although I haven't modeled it.
Comparing 4 cones vs 2 isn't exactly fair, that's like a 28% reduction in total-cone-area.
Total-cone-area being one of the most important figures when it comes to generating good bass...


Can you take a screenshot of the 6kDSP clipping the outputs with the limiters set to off (or the highest available wattage)?
-10db is 1/10th power and -3db is half power...


Also, do you own an SPL meter or CSL UMIK-1 to confirm the SPL and FR?
It is possible that you are sitting in a room null with the new subs.

I've heard 4 Full Marty's with 2 6kDSP's before, it can easily shake doors in their frames from 30ft away under the right circumstances.
Is it the loudest bass I've ever heard? Well, No... The loudest bass I've heard is my own system.
 

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Hi.

First post at the forum, but I`ll try to describe the problem.

I have recently bought and built 2 full martys with Dayton audio UM18-22 18".
They are connected in 4 ohm to a Behringer NX6000D that I allso just bought. Behringer is bragging of 3200W pr channel in 4ohm, I guess I`m getting about 3-400W out of it (wild guess from volume on subwoofers).
From before I have 4x Klipsch RF115SW subwoofers.

Since I`ve read so many extremely positive things about the UM18-22 18, full marty and behringer combo, I wanted that to be the first part of my home built cinema.

I now have klipsche RF7II connected to 2 Crown XTI2002`s bridged, and full atmos klipsch set connected to a Onkyo 3030.

The problem is that the Behringer hits the limiter without producing much sound, the 4x klipsch subs play a LOT louder than the UM18-22 18, and they are "only" 600W pr sub...
Allso, when I go to the sound setting on my reciever and choose sub 1 or 2, the klipsch subs are a lot louder than the martys (RF115SW are set to half volume on subs, 0 gain on onkyo), but the behringer clips on signal in to the amp as well as the power out.

Hope there is anyone out there that can give me any advice on how to make the UM18-22 18 play as loud as people say they do? :)

Btw, the room is big, about 1100 sq ft.

Any advice/tips are greatly appreciated :D

Check your subwoofer setting, and re-run Audyssey. From the Quick Start Guide:

The speakers cannot be adjusted if they have been set to "No" or "None" in "Speaker Configuration". r "Subwoofer 2 Level" cannot be adjusted if "Subwoofer" have been set to "1ch" in "Speaker Configuration".







Capture Onkyo sub1.PNG

Capture Onkyo sub2.PNG
 

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Out of (morbid) curiosity, what makes you say that?
I bought two 4k's and both of them exhibited problems after 3-8 years of use, and then eventually smoked.
The FP clones and iTech that I bought at the same time, are still functioning to this day.
I threw them in the garbage. Even if they were still perfect, they were never powerful, comparatively.
The
 

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@Richard Rasmussen...you've got a lot of subs and that they are different can complicate things. One thing to look for that could be happening is a phase issue. I currently have a gaggle of subs,too. Two are JBL, two are Klipsch...and I had a similar problem, and the fix was to swap the phase on one sub. Voila...proper bass. Perhaps you can swap one of the Marty subs in the 6000D to test? Or if easier, try swapping the phase on all the Klipsch subs. Of course, it's possible that there is a combination of phase issues since they cannot all sit in the same spot in your room. That could be time consuming to work through, but it might be a factor.

Another possibility, as someone mentioned, is that the position of the Marty subs is exciting other modes and nulls at your listening area. Tough to tell without RTA.

Another factor could be the Onkyo room correction utility. I don't know this one since they abandoned Audyssey.
 

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Have you tried placing the um18鈥檚 where the 4 klipsch subs are?? Placement is another huge factor. Also the check the limiter on the inuke, like someone else mention.
 

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"...but the behringer clips on signal in to the amp as well as the power out."

how are you checking this?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What filters do you have setup on the NX DSP? Also, are the cones moving a lot or not at all on the UMs? Did you check the limiter setting on the amps DSP? What is the position of the input sensitivity knobs on the front?
What filters do you have setup on the NX DSP? Also, are the cones moving a lot or not at all on the UMs? Did you check the limiter setting on the amps DSP? What is the position of the input sensitivity knobs on the front?

Filters are set to Buttersworth
The cones are moving somewhat, but less than the SW115, and way less than what I`ve seen on online vids.
The limiter settings are set to 3200W, so No limiter. (Hold and release is set to 50 and 100)
Load is set to 4 ohm.
The input sensitivity is set to about half, that`s the highest it can go now before the clipping and limiter cuts in. Making very little sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What filters do you have setup on the NX DSP? Also, are the cones moving a lot or not at all on the UMs? Did you check the limiter setting on the amps DSP? What is the position of the input sensitivity knobs on the front?
What filters do you have setup on the NX DSP? Also, are the cones moving a lot or not at all on the UMs? Did you check the limiter setting on the amps DSP? What is the position of the input sensitivity knobs on the front?

Filters are set to Buttersworth
The cones are moving somewhat, but less than the SW115, and way less than what I`ve seen on online vids.
The limiter settings are set to 3200W, so No limiter. (Hold and release is set to 50 and 100)
Load is set to 4 ohm.
The input sensitivity is set to about half, that`s the highest it can go now before the clipping and limiter cuts in. Making very little sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The Crown XTI's are a horrible amplifier.

That said, 4 UM-18's should be about 50% louder than 4 Klipsch 15's, although I haven't modeled it.
Comparing 4 cones vs 2 isn't exactly fair, that's like a 28% reduction in total-cone-area.
Total-cone-area being one of the most important figures when it comes to generating good bass...


Can you take a screenshot of the 6kDSP clipping the outputs with the limiters set to off (or the highest available wattage)?
-10db is 1/10th power and -3db is half power...


Also, do you own an SPL meter or CSL UMIK-1 to confirm the SPL and FR?
It is possible that you are sitting in a room null with the new subs.

I've heard 4 Full Marty's with 2 6kDSP's before, it can easily shake doors in their frames from 30ft away under the right circumstances.
Is it the loudest bass I've ever heard? Well, No... The loudest bass I've heard is my own system.
The crown`s are what I`m actually most happy with in the entire stereo :p I`m considering trying them on the subs to see if that would help.

Well, one thing is cone area, another is power. The SW115`s have port noise if I turn them too high (known problem), so they are only set to about half power of about 600W i think.

Screenshotting when the limiter bounces up and down like crazy and hitting the timing when it clips? Is it possible to make a screenshot vid or something? That would maybe be more helpful?


Also, do you own an SPL meter or CSL UMIK-1 to confirm the SPL and FR?
It is possible that you are sitting in a room null with the new subs.

I`ve tried listening in the entire room, and the UM18-22 are on low power.

These subs wont shake a silk cloth 1m from the subs, no worries about door hinges yet :p
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Check your subwoofer setting, and re-run Audyssey. From the Quick Start Guide:










View attachment 2650068

View attachment 2650070
It`s set to 2 subwoofers, I had the old SW115`s on all four sw outputs on the amp before.
Tried running just the new Daytons, and not the SW115`s first, it makes very little base.

Have not tried audyssey, I have used a DB measurer and set each speaker volume to the right DB at my listening position, is that wrong?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
@Richard Rasmussen...you've got a lot of subs and that they are different can complicate things. One thing to look for that could be happening is a phase issue. I currently have a gaggle of subs,too. Two are JBL, two are Klipsch...and I had a similar problem, and the fix was to swap the phase on one sub. Voila...proper bass. Perhaps you can swap one of the Marty subs in the 6000D to test? Or if easier, try swapping the phase on all the Klipsch subs. Of course, it's possible that there is a combination of phase issues since they cannot all sit in the same spot in your room. That could be time consuming to work through, but it might be a factor.

Another possibility, as someone mentioned, is that the position of the Marty subs is exciting other modes and nulls at your listening area. Tough to tell without RTA.

Another factor could be the Onkyo room correction utility. I don't know this one since they abandoned Audyssey.
I`ve tried using only the Martys, that was my plan. Only re-used the SW115`s when the martys made so little sound. I`ve tried changing the phasing on the martys before I reconnected the SW115`s.

I`ll give the room calibration another go, but I read a few years ago that that should be set to Off in the settings and manually adjust gain on each speaker.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
"...but the behringer clips on signal in to the amp as well as the power out."

how are you checking this?
Both in the NX Edit and on the display on the amp it says Input on the left bar.
Both go to both clipping and "protect" (or equivilent) at the same time as the output does. I`ve adjusted the gain on the Onkyo so that it clips both simultaniously as I thought that would give the highest ammount of sound from the subs.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Have you tried placing the um18鈥檚 where the 4 klipsch subs are?? Placement is another huge factor. Also the check the limiter on the inuke, like someone else mention.
I have not, they would stand about 3ft up into the canvas and would not look good. I`ve heard that subs gain up to 3DB if they are in a corner and not in the middle of the wall?
Like I`ve written aerlier, I`ve tried walking around in the room. It`s not a nulling problem.
 
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