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Would a 7-7.5 ft viewing distance be too close for a projection based setup even with a screen like the V6? Would screen and projector "artifacts" be too obvious?

Edit: What about with this projector: http://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vz1000es
In my typical space constrainted room of about 12 x 20 feet in total I´m seated about 8 feet off of my 11 feet wide scope screen on the first row, currently using an Epson 10K laser projector. The fabric will reveal very little artifacts from such a close perimeter, but the content needs to be top notch and the projector a variant of LCOS or perhaps DLP to avoid screen door being visible... From my second "row" I am seated about 12 feets off of the 11 feet screen, and I guess that would be a more optimal distance if I did have more space to spare... So; you could be seated as close as 7-7,5 ft, but optimally - not primarily based on the screen fabric though - I guess some added distance would be beneficial if possible! :)

As for that Sony laser, never seen that generation of it, but the previous generation did look very cool. However, I have not studied what potential issues might be apparant on using such a lens, but I guess that´s a better topic for another thread... :)
 

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In my typical space constrainted room of about 12 x 20 feet in total I´m seated about 8 feet off of my 11 feet wide scope screen on the first row, currently using an Epson 10K laser projector. The fabric will reveal very little artifacts from such a close perimeter, but the content needs to be top notch and the projector a variant of LCOS or perhaps DLP to avoid screen door being visible... From my second "row" I am seated about 12 feets off of the 11 feet screen, and I guess that would be a more optimal distance if I did have more space to spare... So; you could be seated as close as 7-7,5 ft, but optimally - not primarily based on the screen fabric though - I guess some added distance would be beneficial if possible! :)

As for that Sony laser, never seen that generation of it, but the previous generation did look very cool. However, I have not studied what potential issues might be apparant on using such a lens, but I guess that´s a better topic for another thread... :)
At some point I would like to replace my 10' wide 2.8 high power screen with an 11' wide AT. What lumens are you getting from your Epson and what power do you have to run it at? Low, medium or high IIRC?


My first row is about 10.5' from the screen but I may have to come forward a foot or two to place the speakers behind the screen which would put my layout similar to yours. :)
 
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The Epson 10k replaced a JVC x5000 (rs400), and I guess if it was not for the laser source I'd rather use the x5000 still... :) Have not had the time to calibrate or measure yet, but in my batcave light output is perfectly acceptable at medium laser, although the x5000 outputs significantly more light even at low lamp...


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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Is it possible to make a stand for the UltraFrame so it can stand on its own in front of the speakers? If so, any recommendations/pointers on how to go about this?
 

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Is it possible to make a stand for the UltraFrame so it can stand on its own in front of the speakers? If so, any recommendations/pointers on how to go about this?
Sure, we can make out custom stands that would allow you to place the frame in front of the speakers.

However, our clear recommendation would be to rather have a look at our new FlexiBaffle v2 system. Using a flexible steel stud system in combination with our ProSilence line of decoupling clips and U-boats it enables you to make out a completely decoupled front baffle wall at any size and depth. There are numerous advantages with these baffle walls both acoustically and visually. We expect the first shipment of these new studs in 6-8 weeks and we will go ahead and make installation videos as soon as they arrive.

Also, we´re still working on the motorised masking systems. In our past experience we have found that a modular approach, allowing the customer to purchase and install masking and frame separately would be the best solution. As such, our first solution will most likely be a 1-way 16:9->2.40:1 top down masking that would also allow you to close the masking all the way down to protect the screen when not in use. We are also working on a 2.40:1->16:9 2-way system based on the same principles. These items, however, might take some time to get to market but we certainly hope to have them ready for sale by the end of 2017. The current UltraFrame is, however, a very nice frame too, but will not accommodate masking.

I have included some 3D renders as well as some photos of our prototype FlexiBaffle installation here at our headquarters! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Sure, we can make out custom stands that would allow you to place the frame in front of the speakers.

However, our clear recommendation would be to rather have a look at our new FlexiBaffle v2 system. Using a flexible steel stud system in combination with our ProSilence line of decoupling clips and U-boats it enables you to make out a completely decoupled front baffle wall at any size and depth. There are numerous advantages with these baffle walls both acoustically and visually. We expect the first shipment of these new studs in 6-8 weeks and we will go ahead and make installation videos as soon as they arrive.

Also, we´re still working on the motorised masking systems. In our past experience we have found that a modular approach, allowing the customer to purchase and install masking and frame separately would be the best solution. As such, our first solution will most likely be a 1-way 16:9->2.40:1 top down masking that would also allow you to close the masking all the way down to protect the screen when not in use. We are also working on a 2.40:1->16:9 2-way system based on the same principles. These items, however, might take some time to get to market but we certainly hope to have them ready for sale by the end of 2017. The current UltraFrame is, however, a very nice frame too, but will not accommodate masking.

I have included some 3D renders as well as some photos of our prototype FlexiBaffle installation here at our headquarters! :)
Thanks!

Not too sure about the baffle wall for my room. My room is quite small (about 15 ft long x 12 ft wide x 9.5 ft high) and has the entrance door on one of the side walls right next the screen (adjacent to the screen). I'm planning on moving the screen out of the way when not in use in order to avoid obstructing the door too much. Could you highlight some of the details on the custom stand you mentioned? What will its feet look like? Something like this? I will require feet that are not too long.

 

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Thanks!

Not too sure about the baffle wall for my room. My room is quite small (about 15 ft long x 12 ft wide x 9.5 ft high) and has the entrance door on one of the side walls right next the screen (adjacent to the screen). I'm planning on moving the screen out of the way when not in use in order to avoid obstructing the door too much. Could you highlight some of the details on the custom stand you mentioned? What will its feet look like? Something like this? I will require feet that are not too long.

OK, get it, not the atypical batcave installation, but still I´m sure this will end up quite nicely Kain! :) Sure, such a stand is possible to custom make, albeit not with the short throw fixture as part of the stand I´m afraid. I´m also tempted to advice you to rather have a look at in-ceiling types of tensioned screens. We´re currently not supplying such a solution using our AT fabrics, but it is certainly something we will be looking into later on for these types of installations...

So; stand is "supplyable", the short throw projection section is not. 15 feet length will limit you in terms of throw and screen size using a regular projector, an alternative might be the Sony short throw laser @ 25K, but that might be out of budget? I´ve seen this particular Sony at the IFA show and I have to say it does throw a very impressive image at a very short throw, native 4K and laser powered. Just wish the price tag was a bit friendlier... :)

I guess you could say we´ve been mainly occupied with developing and producing the AT screen materials thus far. Going forward we will try to accommodate more framing as well as tensioned solutions using our AT material though, but first priority will be motorised masking for framed screens and as such designing solutions that are easily serviceable and modular.

Sorry for not being able to present you with a better suited solution for your particular room Kain, your challenge for getting a good image would also be the fact that most short throw projectors, with the exception if the particular Sony I mentioned, will not provide a very good image quality either. Perhaps you should consider a regular front projection system after all and rather move down in size somewhat? The JVC DLA-X5000 / 7000 / 9000-series, for example, throws an superior picture, but will be limited to about 120" diagonal (about 270cm image width) in your particular setting. That would still be an impressive size in your room in my opinion and allows you to get at least the short throw projector out of the equation... :) Still, in your particular case you might also want to consider placing the speakers on each side of the screen and rather use an in-ceiling casing with the very best non-AT material there is; my suggestion being the Stewart Studiotek 100 - my personal favourite for non-AT screens by a huge margin... ;) Good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
OK, get it, not the atypical batcave installation, but still I´m sure this will end up quite nicely Kain! :) Sure, such a stand is possible to custom make, albeit not with the short throw fixture as part of the stand I´m afraid. I´m also tempted to advice you to rather have a look at in-ceiling types of tensioned screens. We´re currently not supplying such a solution using our AT fabrics, but it is certainly something we will be looking into later on for these types of installations...

So; stand is "supplyable", the short throw projection section is not. 15 feet length will limit you in terms of throw and screen size using a regular projector, an alternative might be the Sony short throw laser @ 25K, but that might be out of budget? I´ve seen this particular Sony at the IFA show and I have to say it does throw a very impressive image at a very short throw, native 4K and laser powered. Just wish the price tag was a bit friendlier... :)

I guess you could say we´ve been mainly occupied with developing and producing the AT screen materials thus far. Going forward we will try to accommodate more framing as well as tensioned solutions using our AT material though, but first priority will be motorised masking for framed screens and as such designing solutions that are easily serviceable and modular.

Sorry for not being able to present you with a better suited solution for your particular room Kain, your challenge for getting a good image would also be the fact that most short throw projectors, with the exception if the particular Sony I mentioned, will not provide a very good image quality either. Perhaps you should consider a regular front projection system after all and rather move down in size somewhat? The JVC DLA-X5000 / 7000 / 9000-series, for example, throws an superior picture, but will be limited to about 120" diagonal (about 270cm image width) in your particular setting. That would still be an impressive size in your room in my opinion and allows you to get at least the short throw projector out of the equation... :) Still, in your particular case you might also want to consider placing the speakers on each side of the screen and rather use an in-ceiling casing with the very best non-AT material there is; my suggestion being the Stewart Studiotek 100 - my personal favourite for non-AT screens by a huge margin... ;) Good luck!!
Thanks again. :)

I posted that picture to show the stand, not the short throw projection section. The projector will be at the back of the room on the back wall. I actually will require an AT screen as I am quite sure I'll end up with three JBL M2s as LCR. The screen size I am looking at is around 100" (diagonal) 16:9.
 

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Thanks again. :)

I posted that picture to show the stand, not the short throw projection section. The projector will be at the back of the room on the back wall. I actually will require an AT screen as I am quite sure I'll end up with three JBL M2s as LCR. The screen size I am looking at is around 100" (diagonal) 16:9.
Ah, then I take back everything I said... ;) M2s are great speakers, and if you do want to use an AT screen, the UltraWeave V6 has basically been designed with the performance of my favourite non-AT fabric, the Studiotek 100, as a guideline (well, not as a product as such I should probably add, the UltraWeave is totally different in terms of overall buildup, but in terms of its non-speckled, D65 neutral, finely structural and gain neutral appearance), and in my humble (I am almost tempted to say unbiased, but I guess that´s a hard sell... ;)) opinion the current very best AT fabric available out there. I do see a number of competitors trying now to compensate for the structural issue of regular weave jumping fence to knit / spandex. Although knit has some very nice features, the problem is its softening of the image. This was why we - at our 3. gen - moved from knit to weave - and on our 5. gen found the now patented method of combining these fabrics. Another advantage with the UltraWeave is that AT is at reference levels, which is certainly an important factor when using speakers at the level you are considering. Please also remember that AT is reduced at lower SPL. This is a fact that we will place more emphasis on for future measurements of AT. Especially relevant in terms of comparing to regularly perfed (nano or micro) PVC fabrics, but also in comparison to other weaved fabrics as some alternatives tend to try to increase their gain at the cost of AT which might measure a drop of 4dB @ 20KHz @ 90dB, but at 70dB the drop might double, thus stealing micro details at a far more excessive level than one would originally think based on specs. By other words, the AT level is a very very important part of an acoustical transparent fabric design and should be as low as possible. In terms of AT, spandex, as long as it is not too heavy, is quite good in that regards. We have made out our "spandex" / knit portion of the fabric in a very special manner to further improve both gain and AT. We use a more open mesh facing audio and closer mesh facing video, improving AT at each layer by about 0,1-0,2dB @ 90dB as well as improving gain and sharpness even further.

Also, in comparison to other alternatives, please also notice the integrated black backing. This is really an important part of the design too; leaving even a slight gap of 1/10 of a mm, it will cause light bleed and as such reduced sharpness as well as halo - especially important in highly contrasted objects in dark scenes. Dropping the black backing is neither a good choice unless the fabric is very thick, as it washes out contrast - even when the backing compartment is totally black.

Probably enough technical talk for now - albeit I do feel it is important to try to explain the advantages of the UltraWeave V6 rather too often than too seldom as a lot of people seems to tend to forget about some of the arguments that we did spend so much time and effort working into this fabric... ;)

So, yes, the stand is certainly possible to make for you, not sure if we can get the wheels on it, but we´ll try. Please send an e-mail to info @ dreamscreen . no for further details.
 
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Ah, then I take back everything I said... ;) M2s are great speakers, and if you do want to use an AT screen, the UltraWeave V6 has basically been designed with the performance of my favourite non-AT fabric, the Studiotek 100, as a guideline (well, not as a product as such I should probably add, the UltraWeave is totally different in terms of overall buildup, but in terms of its non-speckled, D65 neutral, finely structural and gain neutral appearance), and in my humble (I am almost tempted to say unbiased, but I guess that´s a hard sell... ;)) opinion the current very best AT fabric available out there. I do see a number of competitors trying now to compensate for the structural issue of regular weave jumping fence to knit / spandex. Although knit has some very nice features, the problem is its softening of the image. This was why we - at our 3. gen - moved from knit to weave - and on our 5. gen found the now patented method of combining these fabrics. Another advantage with the UltraWeave is that AT is at reference levels, which is certainly an important factor when using speakers at the level you are considering. Please also remember that AT is reduced at lower SPL. This is a fact that we will place more emphasis on for future measurements of AT. Especially relevant in terms of comparing to regularly perfed (nano or micro) PVC fabrics, but also in comparison to other weaved fabrics as some alternatives tend to try to increase their gain at the cost of AT which might measure a drop of 4dB @ 20KHz @ 90dB, but at 70dB the drop might double, thus stealing micro details at a far more excessive level than one would originally think based on specs. By other words, the AT level is a very very important part of an acoustical transparent fabric design and should be as low as possible. In terms of AT, spandex, as long as it is not too heavy, is quite good in that regards. We have made out our "spandex" / knit portion of the fabric in a very special manner to further improve both gain and AT. We use a more open mesh facing audio and closer mesh facing video, improving AT at each layer by about 0,1-0,2dB @ 90dB as well as improving gain and sharpness even further.

Also, in comparison to other alternatives, please also notice the integrated black backing. This is really an important part of the design too; leaving even a slight gap of 1/10 of a mm, it will cause light bleed and as such reduced sharpness as well as halo - especially important in highly contrasted objects in dark scenes. Dropping the black backing is neither a good choice unless the fabric is very thick, as it washes out contrast - even when the backing compartment is totally black.

Probably enough technical talk for now - albeit I do feel it is important to try to explain the advantages of the UltraWeave V6 rather too often than too seldom as a lot of people seems to tend to forget about some of the arguments that we did spend so much time and effort working into this fabric... ;)

So, yes, the stand is certainly possible to make for you, not sure if we can get the wheels on it, but we´ll try. Please send an e-mail to info @ dreamscreen . no for further details.
Awesome. Thanks a lot for all the info. :)

I agree with you that if I were to get a solid/non-AT screen, my top choice would be the StudioTek 100. Good to know it was the "standard" or basis for the V6 to match. I will send you guys an email when I am closer to purchasing the screen. By the way, I won't require wheels for the stand.
 

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Sure, we can make out custom stands that would allow you to place the frame in front of the speakers.

However, our clear recommendation would be to rather have a look at our new FlexiBaffle v2 system. Using a flexible steel stud system in combination with our ProSilence line of decoupling clips and U-boats it enables you to make out a completely decoupled front baffle wall at any size and depth. There are numerous advantages with these baffle walls both acoustically and visually. We expect the first shipment of these new studs in 6-8 weeks and we will go ahead and make installation videos as soon as they arrive.

Also, we´re still working on the motorised masking systems. In our past experience we have found that a modular approach, allowing the customer to purchase and install masking and frame separately would be the best solution. As such, our first solution will most likely be a 1-way 16:9->2.40:1 top down masking that would also allow you to close the masking all the way down to protect the screen when not in use. We are also working on a 2.40:1->16:9 2-way system based on the same principles. These items, however, might take some time to get to market but we certainly hope to have them ready for sale by the end of 2017. The current UltraFrame is, however, a very nice frame too, but will not accommodate masking.

I have included some 3D renders as well as some photos of our prototype FlexiBaffle installation here at our headquarters! :)
I always like playing with an Erector Set as a kid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erector_Set
This looks like it would be fun to do. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
@Lygren

This one might be more complex but will it also be possible for you guys to make a retractable version of the V6? I would prefer motorized but it could be manually operated/pulled-down as well. This will allow me to have a larger screen than if I went with a stand-mounted screen and I won't have to move the screen out of the way when not in use due to the room layout (as I'll just have to retract/pull-up the screen).
 

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@Kain; unfortunately not right now, but it's certainly not an impossibility, just a matter of where to place the resources right now... :) The V6 material, being bonded and including the black backing as part of the buildup, is actually very suited for a motorised / tensioned setup...


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Hi, I just ordered a sample of the V6 Dreamscreen and am looking for a ~160-180 2.35:1 screen. But I could not find any of the masking solutions on the website. Are there any manual or automatic 2.35:1 -> 1.78:1 masking solutions for the V6 Dreamscreen UltraFrame available yet?
 

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Hi, I just ordered a sample of the V6 Dreamscreen and am looking for a ~160-180 2.35:1 screen. But I could not find any of the masking solutions on the website. Are there any manual or automatic 2.35:1 -> 1.78:1 masking solutions for the V6 Dreamscreen UltraFrame available yet?


Hi landonin, and thanks for ordering that sample. Customers located in the US should rather contact the US distributor directly for samples; www.avscience.com. We'll halt your sample shipment until further notice, just send us an e-mail info AT dreamscreen . no if AVS is out of samples (we'll resupply them shortly in such case)!

As for the masking screens, these are currently not available, hopefully by Q4 this year we will be able to supply them to US customers (through AVScience). These are motorised at first (Somfy RTS motors), we might offer a manual version later on. 1-way 16:9 -> 2.40:1 AT masking that can be rolled all the way down when screen is not in use, or 2-way 2.40:1->16:9 dual motor system (also Somfy). Modular system allowing for frame / fabric purchase first, then masking whenever later on...

Still, please remember that AVS is also able to supply universal grip rails that would fit basically any frame out there; perhaps you can find a nice used multi masking frame online and rather retrofit the V6 fabric using the grip rails for example? :)


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It just happens that I have this 17 foot wide frame from My Old 2012 RealD 4k PH lab in Miami sitting at Alan's, synchronicity points to new lab in Miami for the Pimps of Immersive cinema during 2017 more and more.:D




What kind of extinction ratio did you achieve with this material?
 

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We will be showing the new MotoMask V2 masking system at CEDIA 2017 in San Diego 7.-9. of September for anyone interested, in combination with the new PRO XXL revision of the UltraWeave V6. The frame will be a 16:9 native, 1-way masked screen that enables both 2.40:1 masking as well as totally closing down the masking fabric to protect the screen when not in use. Image size is about 15 1/2 feet wide... More info coming soon!

Please see a short video from our initial 3D-printed prototype here:
. The frame displayed at the show will be our first solid steel made prototype, but based on our testing thus far it should work wonders! :)

So, again, modular system, you can purchase and install the frame + fabric first and later on install the masking roller system. Somfy top grade motor that allows control through just about any system out there (Crestron etc.), but a basic Somfy RF (RTS) remote is included that would allow you to set top, 2.40:1 and shut.
 
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