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Does anyone know why they have pulled the drive extender feature from Vail? This is one of the best features on WHS. Apparrently, it was enough get HP to drop out of it.


Is there something else in there that is redundant? Is it going to use a system similar to a Raid system? I have held off toying around with the beta, but I didn't remember hearing that this was pulled.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12...vail_hp_walks/

Quote:
HP dumps Microsoft's Vail Home Server 'to focus on webOS'

'Drive feature kill just a coincidence' insists Redmond


By Kelly Fiveash


Posted in Operating Systems, 1st December 2010 12:30 GMT


Free whitepaper – The Register Guide to Enterprise Virtualization


HP has ditched Microsoft’s Windows Home Server operating system, codenamed ‘Vail’, just days after the software giant killed a popular feature in the product.


However, Microsoft insists that HP’s decision to retire its MediaSmart Server line, which includes Windows Home Server in the line-up, had nothing to do with Microsoft’s plan to remove its popular Drive Extender feature from Vail.


“HP has told us they do not plan to provide a platform for Windows Home Server code name ‘Vail’. HP has told us they will continue to sell the existing version of MediaSmart Server through the end of the calendar year 2010 and will honour service and support agreements,” said Microsoft in a blog post [1] yesterday.


“This news is in no way related to recent announcements about feature changes in Windows Home Server ‘Vail.’”


Microsoft confirmed last week that it would dump the Drive Extender feature from Vail, even though it has tested it in the most recent beta version of the product.


Drive Extender supports multiple internal and external hard drives in the home server edition of Windows, and Microsoft’s decision to axe the feature led to complaints aplenty from customers [2].


MS will spin out a new beta of Vail – minus its Drive Extender tech – early next year. The final code won’t be released, meanwhile, until the first half of 2011.


HP has probably mulled for some time over its decision to walk away from Microsoft’s MediaSmart Server product line-up.


According to MediaSmartServer.net [3], which quotes HP marketing manager Allen Buckner, the move away from Vail was due to “shifting additional resources to focus on webOS initiatives”.


All of which has got to hurt Microsoft, which already took a sizeable bruising from customers following its decision to kill the Drive Extender feature.


But then, as the Steve Ballmer-led company reminded us, it still has Acer and, er, Tranquil on board the not-so-good-ship Vail. ®
 

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My WHS seems to have a problem described in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1307063

Resolving this is taking so much time. I'm actually thinking of just putting a home premium W7 OS on the server box in place of WHS and sharing out some folders to the "Home Group" PCs.

I could automate the back up by running scheduled RoboCopy scripts and would manage my own folder duplication of the folders I want duplicated. The pool of extended drives is really nice-- when it works.

I really like WHS-- again when it works but this is nuts!

Having separate drives and folders that I can just plug into a "client" PC has a lot going for it.

What do you guys think?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmarchini /forum/post/19603701


Does anyone know why they have pulled the drive extender feature from Vail? This is one of the best features on WHS. Apparrently, it was enough get HP to drop out of it.


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MS announced this last year around November, IIRC. The reason for DE being pulled from the new server lineups was because WHS is based on the business server products and MS was trying to incorporate DE into all the server products. The issue came with some software incompatibilities.


So instead of developing WHS as a seperate product, MS decided to remove DE altogether.


Here is one article:

http://www.windowsobserver.com/2010/...ender-feature/


Personally, I will be sticking with WHS1 for the forseeable future... it works perfectly for me and I love the DE features.


Hopefully MS will decide to reintegrate DE into WHS at some point, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

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Beemer,

So far my entire weekend has been spent in computer hell! I have removed the original "missing" 2TB drive (which went fast) and tested it. No problem found. I just finished the "Removal" of the first remaining 1 TB drive. It took over 40 hours! (+ 2 minutes to actually unplug and unscrew it and pull it!). I connected it to a client PC with a USB-SATA adapter. NPF! I can't look at the S.M.A.R.T. data in the USB adapter to see if there are any clues.

So my server is back online with 1 internal 1 TB drive and 1 external 2 TB drive and it appears to be working normally.

I backed up the three client PCs and things went fast. Maybe 20 minutes. Maybe a little slower then with all internal drives because of the USB drive.

I'm copying some MC recordings back to the server shared "Recorded TV" folder to give it a workout. The transfer is running at 30 megabytes per second. Not too bad for transfers from a USB 2.0 drive across a GbE LAN. About 1/2 normal speed(using all internal drives) but 15 x faster than running with the alleged bad drive(s).

I'll test things for a while and give a DE some more thought. I have a spare W7 machine and some TB drives that I could put online at any time and use it as a "server" without DE.

Take care.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer533 /forum/post/19839150


MS announced this last year around November, IIRC. The reason for DE being pulled from the new server lineups was because WHS is based on the business server products and MS was trying to incorporate DE into all the server products. The issue came with some software incompatibilities.


So instead of developing WHS as a seperate product, MS decided to remove DE altogether.


Here is one article:

http://www.windowsobserver.com/2010/...ender-feature/


Personally, I will be sticking with WHS1 for the forseeable future... it works perfectly for me and I love the DE features.


Hopefully MS will decide to reintegrate DE into WHS at some point, but I'm not holding my breath.

Right. They could not make it work with business applications that were needed for Aurora, SBS 2011 - business solutions that shared the same codebase.

I've been following discussions here
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...lbeta/threads/

MS discarded home sector and us, enthusiasts, in favor of business sector. They could not do better and that is what they had to do in order to stay at business sector.


Anyway, Drive Extender in Vail sucked from the beginning. It was implemented too poorly from engineering standpoint. In some usage cases it could have shown like RAID 0 reliability with the cost of RAID 1 overhead + 12% more. It should not have existed.


I will also continue to use WHS v1 while it's possible. WHS v1 works with FlexRaid very well. Vail DE would not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh /forum/post/19842082


......I will also continue to use WHS v1 while it's possible. ......

I'm a very contented WHS V1 user. What do you envision making it not possible to use V1?


Hopefully whatever would prevent it is a long ways off. Maybe by then all our media will be stored in our watch, or an implant!


Rod
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwboater /forum/post/19843506


I'm a very contented WHS V1 user. What do you envision making it not possible to use V1?

For example, potential inability to back up Windows 8.

Potential problems with newer hard drives. WD discontinued EADS drives, now all their green HDDs have advanced format. I know people are using them in WHS v1 but still there may be performance issues on some motherboards.

Also in a year or so it may be more economical to use 3TB drives, not sure if WHS v1 supports them.


Microsoft is planning to end mainstream support for WHS v1 in less than 2 years (1/8/2013).

It is still distant future though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh /forum/post/19843729


For example, potential inability to back up Windows 8.

Potential problems with newer hard drives. WD discontinued EADS drives, now all their green HDDs have advanced format. I know people are using them in WHS v1 but still there may be performance issues on some motherboards.

Also in a year or so it may be more economical to use 3TB drives, not sure if WHS v1 supports them.


Microsoft is planning to end mainstream support for WHS v1 in less than 2 years (1/8/2013).

It is still distant future though.

I am not so worried about W8 at this point, but I was hoping they would support it past 2013...


Do you have any links regarding that? I hope they will be rethinking Vail with DE at some point...


The fact that they haven't released Vail yet officially hopefully means something good.. Maybe
 

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 http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=12624


If they release Windows 8 after 1/8/2013 they have all rights not to support it in WHS v1. Of course, they theoretically may refuse to support it if it is released earlier.

Otherwise mainstream support end doesn't mean much.


It is not applicable date for Extended support end that worries me. Does it mean it is the same as mainstream end? I don't know.

If that's the case it would mean no security patches, no critical hotfixes after 1/8/2013.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh
For example, potential inability to back up Windows 8.

Potential problems with newer hard drives. WD discontinued EADS drives, now all their green HDDs have advanced format. I know people are using them in WHS v1 but still there may be performance issues on some motherboards.

Also in a year or so it may be more economical to use 3TB drives, not sure if WHS v1 supports them.


Microsoft is planning to end mainstream support for WHS v1 in less than 2 years (1/8/2013).

It is still distant future though.
WHS not fully supporting new hardware isn't as big as an issue as a new OS not supporting older hardware as you can most likely still find older hardware to buy past the time it because more practical to upgrade the OS.


3TB drives is a perfect example of things that aren't technically supported by WHS V1 (due to DE using MBR and not GPT partitions which is limted to 2TB-if V2 is the same it's yet another reason I'd be glad to see it gone) yet I have RAID (also something it doesn't technically support but hardware RAID does work) arrays that are >2TB and I'm able to use their full capacity but it's a bit of a PITA to get a GPT partition working properly in the WHS storage pool but once it's done you shouldn't ever have to do anything w/ it again, reinstalls and array expansions for those running RAID don't care that's it's a GPT partion.


You don't even need to wait for Win 8, WHS V1 already doesn't fully support back up on Win 7 64, sure it does the back up just fine but restoring the back up can be tricky, although it possible it does go as advertised-just boot off the restore CD.


MS dropping mainstream support shouldn't really be an issue for those that want to continue using V1 as most things really needing support would have most likely been covered by then.
 

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Is there another NAS/RAID/unRaid technology that has the equivalent features of WHS Drive Extender, specifically the ability to take an arbitrary collection of hard drives (of different sizes) and munge them together as a single large volume that is duplicated across volumes such that it is tolerant of a single drive's failure?
 

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micksh & lovemyram4x4,


Thanks for answering my question of things to be concerned about with running WHS V1 in the future.


So far it looks like the biggest concern for me may be the inability to use larger HDs.


Rod
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwboater /forum/post/19850154


micksh & lovemyram4x4,


Thanks for answering my question of things to be concerned about with running WHS V1 in the future.


So far it looks like the biggest concern for me may be the inability to use larger HDs.


Rod
This looks promising.
 

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Honestly, the only reason I ever wanted to upgrade to Vail was for Live Mesh support. I would love to have automatic synchronization across my main PC and Server, which would basically allow me to take a picture off of my camera and then walk over to my HTPC knowing that it would be there. I know I could have the HTPC point at my computer, but that's what the server is for! Ah well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by heaphus /forum/post/19850733

This looks promising.

It doesn't sound like this really does anything more than what WHS V1 already does other than helping some controller access full drive capacities but that's an issue w/ the controllers drivers/firmware (any decent controller will have updates for this). The issue isn't that WHS doesn't support GPT but that DE formats in MBR, however if this software makes it so you can convert the DE pooled MBR partition to a GPT w/o changing drive's system names it would the using larger drives/arrays much easier and if it could do w/o complete data loss that would be even better (I don't think that's possible) but it's not hard to copy off the data before converting especially if you right after adding the drive to the DE pool. Unfortunately I don't have enough drives that aren't currently in use to create an array larger than 2.2TB to test this software to see if it will make things easier, or possible for those who don't want to be changing things w/ regedit.
 
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