[reecew]

Ok i am wanting to build some new mains and center channel. I am looking to build some TLAH's for mains and SLA for the center channel. I like the looks of a line array. And for the price i havent seen anything that comes close to the performance/sensitivity. But what i dont like is the idea of crossing at 100hz or higher using the JVC 3x5's everyone has been using lately. So i think i have found another driver/tweet combo that might work for my situation.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=299-940
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=299-933

What do you guys think about those paired together with a 3500hz driver to tweet x-over point? I would post this on bill's site but aside from him occasionally there's nothing but tumble weeds and an occasional stray animal running around. I know this combo is more expensive than the JVC 3x5's and onkyo tweets but im looking for a 80hz x-over point. I would think the extra $100 bucks on the speakers would be worth it right? Any other suggestions/combos would be great.

 

[mdk2007]

Im looking at something like this too and would deff be interested on some feedback with these too! certainly a lot more traffic here too lol...

 

[reecew]

What about this combo? Could these tweets be crossed to these drivers at 5000hz since they have an FS of 4200?
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...shbackShopping
http://cgi.ebay.com/Onkyo-OEM-Tweete...item27ab32bd16

 

[lilmike]

Watch out for comb filtering, 5.25's might be too large a driver to reach much above 2000 Hz in a line array.

 

[Starkiller4299]

Well, the tweets already have the DIY community voucher, I think. Really the hardest part is finding a good, cheap woofer to go with them

. After that it's just gruntwork (cutting out holes and tuning crossovers

).

 

[reecew]

Bill said those MCM's should work but he reccomended a 3500hz x-over point to someone else on his site. Its just a tough decisions my budget isnt large at all about $400 for mains and center. And im just wanting the most for my money. And not your standard 89-90db sensitivity designs that are only good to -15 to 10db from reference. To me this seemed the only way to get that performance for the price.

 

[snickel]

Aren't you suppose to be at Mardi Gras now Reece what are you doing walking down Bourbon street and posting on your phone?

 

[reecew]

HAHA not yet man thrusdays the day i wanted to leave today but plans changed.

 

[Starkiller4299]

I hear that, reece. Although my DIY fronts are a ways in the future for me, I'm already comparing line arrays, econowaves, and others (like the Statements) for the relative pros and cons. Getting the best bag for the buck is a small obsession of mine.

 

[reecew]

Yes. I mean what are you finding comparable? Im finding nothing even close in price that would be worth my time IMO. But then again i havent looked into any of the econowave designs. Maybe i should check those out.

 

[maxmercy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew /forum/post/18104922


Bill said those MCM's should work but he reccomended a 3500hz x-over point to someone else on his site. Its just a tough decisions my budget isnt large at all about $400 for mains and center. And im just wanting the most for my money. And not your standard 89-90db sensitivity designs that are only good to -15 to 10db from reference. To me this seemed the only way to get that performance for the price.

Reece,


My 9-woofer, 18 tweeter SLAs are only good to -10dB from reference....You need better than 1 - 1.5mm Xmax on your woofers if you want low distortion down to the relatively high crossover frequency of the SLAs (I cross mine at 120-150).


At 10dB below reference, I have less than 5% THD throughout. But move that to -7db from reference, and 10%+ THD starts to creep in, and they sound very strained, and harsh. To get clean reference levels, you need VERY capable speakers.


Also, SLA does not have an optimized crossover, or a new crossover design would be available for every iteration (the 4" NSB original drivers used, the Onkyo 4" drivers I used, the 3x5" drivers that are popular now). Since a one-size-fits-all crossover is used, EQ is mandatory for SLAs, and the horizontal nulls created at and near the crossover frequency need to be found so that the listening area is not within them.


All that being said, I like my SLAs. For the $80 in drivers for all 3 speakers, $40 in crossover parts, and 2 sheets of 3/4" ply, I think it was a cheap way to get 10dB below reference performance....


Oh yeah, they never see more than 15-25 Watts....so my receiver stays really cool...


JSS

 

[maxmercy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 /forum/post/18105284


I hear that, reece. Although my DIY fronts are a ways in the future for me, I'm already comparing line arrays, econowaves, and others (like the Statements) for the relative pros and cons. Getting the best bag for the buck is a small obsession of mine.

Depends on the screen....


Acoustically transparent screen = Econowaves


TV or Acoustically opaque screen = slimmer speakers like line arrays or CBTs...CBTs have much better dispersive characteristics than line arrays.

http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/...T%20Paper4.pdf


JSS

 

[reecew]

Yea i guess what i want cant be had for the $$ no matter what way i go. Thats completely understandable. I just dont know if the line arrays are my best option anymore i did alot more reading after making this thread. Too many decision who the hell made all these different designs haha. Its worse than be a kid in a gigantic candy store with only a quarter trying to find the best piece of candy for my money. Its nearly impossible!


Maybe i should just start a POLL and not choose myself let it be done for me LOL.

 

[thylantyr]

Line arrays require good designs to get the results you expect, else

it will just turn out to be an oversized cheap "flea market" sounding system.


The tweeter choice is the problem and you are limited by the market.

Just about any decent cheap midwoofer can be made to work in an array, so

I'd dump all the big coin into quality planars and buy cheap midwoofers else

don't waste your money and time.


If you cut corners and makey hybrid arrays with only one quality tweeter

then you aren't experiencing a full line array

These line array design are either all out or forget it.

 

[reecew]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr /forum/post/18106179


Line arrays require good designs to get the results you expect, else

it will just turn out to be an oversized cheap "flea market" sounding system.


The tweeter choice is the problem and you are limited by the market.

Just about any decent cheap midwoofer can be made to work in an array, so

I'd dump all the big coin into quality planars and buy cheap midwoofers else

don't waste your money and time.


If you cut corners and makey hybrid arrays with only one quality tweeter

then you aren't experiencing a full line array

These line array design are either all out or forget it.

Im begining to realize this the more in depth i read about line arrays

. In all reality i dont listen at reference levels. But i would like a speaker setup capable of close to reference level playback so at my normal listening volume the distortion levels are at an absolute minimum while being able to cross at 80hz. I am new to the whole DIY speakers scene so sorry if im sounding ignorant lol. I also have an extremely large listening area and need something with a larger sound stage or good imaging maybe be the term i am looking for? Maybe not? And i think the line arrays have that quality in their court better than a traditional MTM design in my budget range. I understand im not going to get AMAZING speakers for my money. But i should be able to build something that will be better than your average "commercial distortion emitters" or come up with a feasible line array combo for the price. I do appreciate the reply's, but now im only more skeptical about the line array's haha. I know im acting like a baby but im the type of person who stresses before a build so that way i dont do it after. And in turn have to redo/upgrade shortly afterwards.

 

[Satansfx]

reecew,


I was also looking at those 5.25's, and I was looking at These . And using the Beston RT001A for my highs....


But as much as I want to jump right in and start buying and building, you have to think of everything else that comes with this....


#1 who is going to design your x-over? or are you going to go active?

#2 how are you going to power these?


each time I come back to THOSE exact two things.... and I still can't dive in because of those two things

Like Thy said..... All or nothing.

 

[reecew]

Yea thats true i am definitly not designing my own x-over. If i were to try myself i bet all the speaker would end up being good for is a paper weight or atleast to scare animals away. I was going to use the generic x-over design outlined in the plans just moding the high pass point to suite whatever tweet/driver combo i choose. And majority of the people are just using their receivers power for the TLAH's and SLA's. The receiver im using is an advertised 105wx7 channel's. So it should do OK for power i would think.

 

[Satansfx]

Chances are, using the generic crossover will not impress you at all. If you are thinking about a passive x-over for a line array, you might already be in over your head.... If you are going to use an active x-over then you'll just have a learning curve

But you will need an amp to power these things.


I am right here with you on this one.... so don't think I am trying to steer you one way or another. I have been trying to build a set of arrays for over 2 years now.... each time I come close, something comes up and plans get pushed back - such is life.

 

[maxmercy]

Reece/SFx,


I think that the rave reviews that come from SLA/TLAH are from folks who have not really had great speakers to listen to...I was definitely in that boat.


The economy/budget of the designs is what drew me in, and I bought the ad copy hook, line and sinker, and dove right in, not thinking there could be any drawbacks...


Still, compared to what I had before, my system sounds muh better, and is able to play cleaner and louder. Much better freq response, but only for people sitting in the listening area (line arrays are some directional beasts). So the SLAs/THT have compromises....the THT is a MONSTER, which is kind of an unfriendly shape....and I now find that I would like a better freq response seat to seat, so I am working on designing 4 smaller subs that will equal the output of THT, but be easier to blend into a room, and give a more even freq response between seats....


As for replacing my mains/center, that's a ways away....quality drivers for an array/CBT are not necessarily cheap, and the whole crossover design thing keeps me at bay. I have a DCX2496, so I could definitely find out what would be a good crossover actively, but I'm not sure that would translate into a good passive solution....


Finding speakers that can play at reference cleanly is tough....I thought about some of the designs put forth by Holtz/Campbell, but they are at best 88dB sensitive. That means for a 4 meter listening distance, you need to feed those speakers ~800W to get reference levels at the listening position (100W gets you 108dB at 1m, but subtract 12dB for a 4m distance, and you are back at 96dB, and you need 9 more dB to get to reference, which means 8x the power, or 800W). You need a 95dB+ sensitivity speaker if you want close to reference levels with ordinary receiver power (~100W).....


The SLAs are 92dB speakers with low Xmax woofers, hence the 10dB below reference limitation I impose.


JSS

 

[Starkiller4299]

Hmmm, I was trying to remember where I saw some inexpensive drivers, and suddenly remembered American Science and Surplus. They typically have a few driver available, but they have relatively little information available about them. Anybody think they can recognize these?

http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/...7/category/158


Some would be...less than optimal...for our purposes, but perhaps they provide a few more options.