[Meke]

I have a Dreamcast and some PAL60 Games so I have been

very happy to find Dscaler supporting this Format.

The Dreamcast is connected to the Chinch-in of

my Pinnacle Studio PCTV.

Everything is fine except that Dscaler work

in 'Odd Scanlines Only' Deinterlace Mode only.

All other Modes show a Screenpicture that is

shifted to the top of the Window.


Is it a bug ? Is it impossible ?

(Yes, I dont know anything about this Stuff)


I'd be thankfull if someone could help me

to get the other Modes to work or explain

me what I'm doing wrong.



Thanks

 

[dschmelzer]

Meke: welcome to the forum. What version are you using?

 

[Meke]

Hi !


I'm using the lates Beta 3.0.9.

I've tried the other versions and they show the same behaviour.

I tried some other Programms too and the only one coming

near to DScaler is Multidec.

It seems to work with PAL60 and if you turn on

'Nur ein Halbbild ausgeben' (Sorry, German!) which is

something like the 'Odd Scanlines Only' Mode it shows

a Picture which is shifted to the top of the Window.


Dscaler shows the same shifted Picture in 'Even Scanlines Only'.

'Odd Scanlines Only' works perfect.

So the Problem seems to be that these Modes doesn't match in their 'Screenposition'.

 

[dschmelzer]

Hmmm... I seem to remember some work on this about a year ago. How about the "old game" algorithm?


I assume that this is working as intended.

 

[Meke]

I din'd know how it was intended to work but

it shows a 'flipping' screen between the

good frame and the shifted one.

The Bob Modes do the same.

The other Modes show a mix between the two

frames.

(Looks like a bad TV picture with a shifted copy

of itself in the Background)

except the 'Video' Modes showing a stable,

shifted Picture.

While playing aroud with the Settings and

restarting Dscaler a few times the good

frame changed from 'Odd Scanlines' to

'Even Scanlines' Mode sometimes.But there is

always a good frame and a bad one which is

'out of sync' in y Position.

 

[dschmelzer]

Meke: this is an interesting problem. PAL 60 + game machine algoirthms. While it is out of my experience, I'll bump it up so that perhaps a "specialist" can deal with it.

 

[JohnAd]

From what yopu describe the dramcast is not outputting PAL60.


What are you tying to do? If you are running US games in a European dreamcast then you might expect PAL60 but get something else altogether.


THe behaviuor you describe lloks like what happens when you run a true PAL60 source into normal PAL.


John

 

[Meke]

Yes, it looks a bit like a PAL60 signal in PAL,

but it is not. If i switch to NTSC I get a

wounderful black and white Picture.A PAL60

signal in PAL looks even worse than the Problem I've got.

Its 'only' that one of the Frames is shifted to the top

1/5 of the screen. Seems to be some kind of timing

Problem with one of the frames. Which one is shifted

seems to be decided during startup of Dscaler

since it changes after some restarts.


Dscaler is a great Programm and its ok for me

to play in one of the scanline Modes but after

trying for some days I'm really intrested

why its behaving that way.


Thanks Dan, listening to my Problem at all.

 

[Telv]

I have this same problem too (also using a Pinnacle PCTV). The results are the same for games of both EU and US/JP origins. Looks fine except in black and white when viewed in NTSC. If running in PAL60 the screen either desyncs or is offset (if you are not running the even/odd scanline option)

 

[JohnAd]

Meke


In Multidec try turning off PLL. This may be the cause of the problem.


John

 

[Telv]

bleh.. nm

post deleted

 

[Meke]

Didnt turn on PLL (says its for 878 Cards, the pctv has a 848 ).

Is there any FAQ describing the Settings and switches and

everything of Dscaler more extensiv than on the Dscaler Site ?

Maybe the .ini too ??

 

[JohnAd]

Hmm,


are you sure your PCTV card has a bt848, mine has bt878a.


Anyway that could be the problem. we have to fool the card in syncing to the PAL60 signal and it may need the PAL PLL to do it.


John

 

[Meke]

Maybe the new PCTV Cards have a 878 but mine has a 848 (the 848 isn't produced anymore, or is it ? )

The Card should be the same like the Miro PCTV (Pinnacle bought Miro snd their Video Products some years ago) but changing Dscaler to the Miro PCTV doesn't help (Still get a perfect Picture through the tuner).

Since I dont know anything about this PLL Stuff and changing the Card type doesn't seem to affect the Problem I could try to get a

PCTV with a 878 to test PAL60.

Stupid or helpfull ??

 

[JohnAd]

Meke


Changing the card type in Dscaler won't help. THe PCTV Rave card setup says it expects PLL and will try and set it.


PLL seems to be required to sysnc to the PAL or SECAM colour signal. THis may be omitted on US cards that can only get NTSC.


Can you receive normal PAL signals on your card?


If not then you will need to get a card that can.


John

 

[Meke]

John


I can receive PAL with my PCTV (I live in Germany) and Dscaler

works perfect as TV app in PAL and NTSC.

I got my Card from a developer at Pinnacle (sadly he's doing

other video Stuff and has nothing to do with the PCTV) and I told

him about my problem and your PLL theory.

He said it looks like a Problem with the "Austastlücke" (the Signal or space between the two frames of a TV picture).

Sorry but I didn't find any translation for it .

Meant it should be fixable:

Oh, found a website describbing the Pal signal (bit complicated for a newbie like me).

Its at:
http://www.vac-brick.com/1998pal.html

"Austastlücke" is described as the intervall between Field syncronizing pulse (dont know enough to be sure but that should be it).

If I can help you in anyway, tell me.

Oh, and thanks for your great support till now.

 

[JohnAd]

Meke


The whole PAL60 mode is a bit a fudge anyway. I've tested it with 2 devices and it works OK with both of those. From the sound of your problem it looks like the dreamcast is not outputting a PAL60 signal in the same way as the other devices. This means that it may well not be possible to get it to work with your setup.


There is not much else I can suggest for you to do and I now consider this probelm closed.


Thanks and sorry


John

 

[Meke]

thanks for trying !

 

[Samor]

Hi! Sorry I drag up this old subject but it seems to be the same problem I have. I cannot get NTSC DC games to run properly with Dscaler when I put it on PAL60...however, my card is a bt848. I have seen bt878 cards that DID work properly! So I guess it has something to do with the bt848, but what could it be?