[FreakZilla]

I currently have an old yamaha receiver that only does DTS and DD.My question to you is, is DTSHD and DD HD worth the purchase of a new receiver for a 7.1 setup? I know some movies like star wars support DD surround EX but never really heard much of a difference. Is true 7.1 that damn good?

 

[Knucklehead90]

No.

 

[rick240]

Enjoy DTS-HD and TrueHD when you upgrade, but they are not reason enough alone to upgrade.


DTS (Damned Terrific Sound) is still really good!

 

[BIslander]

Lossless is not about the number of channels. Although TrueHD and dts-MA support 7.1, most movies only have 5.1 soundtracks. Lossless is about resolution. You get a bit-for-bit copy of the studio master.


However, that doesn't mean lossless necessarily sounds better. The lossy DD 5.1 and DTS outputs from lossless on Blu-ray are less compressed than their counterparts on DVD and they sound great. It's unlikely you'd hear any difference between lossless and the high bitrate lossy outputs.


A new AVR offering room correction such as Audyssey may sound better, but not because of lossless.

 

[thebland]

Yes.. Upgrade. Unless your speakers are crap, the difference from the lossy soundtrack to the lossless track is significant.

 

[BIslander]

FreakZilla - You will find rather passionate arguments about whether lossless sounds better than the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu-ray. It would be nice if there were rigorous studies on the subject, but I'm not aware of any. This is a good read and somewhat better grounded than the opinions you'll find in threads like this one.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM

 

[rdgrimes]

$0.02:


There are MANY reasons to upgrade an AVR, lossless audio is just one of them. In the past few years, advancements in DACs, DSP modes and general audio quality have made big differences. Add any one of the newer auto-setup tools for multichannel systems and EQ and you have essentially a completely different ball game. HDMI switching, video processing and the list goes on.


Even legacy DTS and DD will sound much improved, assuming a decent speaker system.

 

[machavez00]

I want to upgrade my Yamaha RX-V361 not so much for TruHD or Master Audio, but to take advantage of direct HDMI input and audio return channel the newer receivers have.

 

[Auditor55]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland /forum/post/20895785


Yes.. Upgrade. Unless your speakers are crap, the difference from the lossy soundtrack to the lossless track is significant.

I take it you reached that conlcusion as a result of a double blind, controlled, leved matched listening test. If not, you opinion is without merit.

 

[Kilian.ca]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander /forum/post/20895826

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM

If anyone reading this often cited article assumes it's a scientifically vigorous and conclusive study it's not, certainly not of the standard to be published in a peer-reviewed good scientific journal. Read this long thread for more comments from both sides.


You can pick a short silent or simple quiet segment and demonstrate there's no difference between lossless and lossy. How about a longer, more complex and higher resolution segment, like the 2L Divertimento BD with 7.1 24/192 in both Dolby THD and DD in a DBT?


According to blu-raystats.com, 6.4% of BDs have 7.1 channels (I can't vouch for the accuracy), so 5.1 to 7.1 isn't worth it. Also it depends on your room size.


Those with legacy DD/dts AVRs can try the following and judge for themselves the difference between lossless v. lossy with their own equipment:

1. If AVR has 5.1 in then use the 5.1 out of the BDP, if available.

2. If (1) isn't possible, at least try a stereo track or stereo downmix via optical, as this can pass 2CH PCM and compare that to a 2CH DD/dts downmix from the same disc.


In both cases some careful fiddling with the settings in player and AVR will be needed.

 

[sdurani]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca /forum/post/20896333


If anyone reading this often cited article assumes it's a scientifically vigorous and conclusive study it's not, certainly not of the standard to be published in a peer-reviewed good scientific journal.

I don't think anyone claimed it was a scientifically vigorous and conclusive study like the kind published in a peer-reviewed good scientific journal. But it is a useful article since the author and his editor got to directly compare coded material (lossless and lossy) to the uncompressed PCM original using high quality playback systems. It's the most recent comparison published, and there hasn't been anything newer or more scientific since. People will probably link to that article less often once someone publishes a double-blind, level-matched, ABX test. Until then, the HEmag article is all we got.

Quote:
According to blu-raystats.com, 6.4% of BDs have 7.1 channels (I can't vouch for the accuracy), so 5.1 to 7.1 isn't worth it.

You're assuming that 7.1-speaker set-ups are only for discrete 7.1-channel material. Consumer 7.1 pre-pros hit the market 25 years ago (Fosgate in 1986, Lexicon in 1988). 7.1-channel material wouldn't show up for another 20 years. Why do you think people bought those pre-pros when no 7.1 content existed to make it "worth it"?

 

[MrEastSide]

Personally, I find that HD tracks are often louder than their lossy counterparts. But, that's about the only difference I can personally notice. Is it worth a new receiver? Probably not.

 

[OmegaR3D]

I would absolutely upgrade to a lossless capable receiver but it's not just that one upgrade you will be receiving. HD audio receivers will benefit from modern dacs and various eq/volume technologies that yours will not have.


While I am a firm believer that lossless is noticable over lossy the evidence suggests otherwise. I toggle between lossy and HD streams all the time and most of the time I can hear the wider realistic soundstage.

 

[gce]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakZilla /forum/post/20895266


I currently have an old yamaha receiver that only does DTS and DD.My question to you is, is DTSHD and DD HD worth the purchase of a new receiver for a 7.1 setup? I know some movies like star wars support DD surround EX but never really heard much of a difference. Is true 7.1 that damn good?

I went from DD and DTS to a new AVR with Dolby True and DTS Master about 23 years ago and will never go back. The Sound is much better with Dolby True and DTS Master...IMHO! I have a 5.1 setup.

 

[thebland]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 /forum/post/20896045


I take it you reached that conlcusion as a result of a double blind, controlled, leved matched listening test. If not, you opinion is without merit.

Yes... of course.. and many times! Haven't you looked at my set up and long relationship with audio (and video calibrators).


There were no significant differences in bass improvement but dialog intelligibility nad surround ambiance were all improved.


It's a no-brainer. Studio master vs compressed, lossy track. Besides, if you're using Blu Ray, you can't buy a receiver or SSP without lossless decoding.

 

[bfreedma]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gce /forum/post/20897036


I went from DD and DTS to a new AVR with Dolby True and DTS Master about 23 years ago and will never go back. The Sound is much better with Dolby True and DTS Master...IMHO! I have a 5.1 setup.

23 years ago? You must have a very early prototype

 

[BAMAVADER]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gce /forum/post/20897036


I went from DD and DTS to a new AVR with Dolby True and DTS Master about 23 years ago and will never go back.

there are those who stay ahead of the curve and then there's this guy...

 

[MrEastSide]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma /forum/post/20897203


23 years ago? You must have a very early prototype

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamavader /forum/post/20898188


there are those who stay ahead of the curve and then there's this guy...

Ahhh ha ha ha ha!!!!

 

[gce]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma /forum/post/20897203


23 years ago? You must have a very early prototype

Oooppps...make that 2 years...typo!

 

[Knucklehead90]

Is it any surprise that the OP hasn't come back with any questions?


At any rate one poster gave you this link - read it and decide for yourself. I'm with that opinion. If listening experts in the field can't tell much difference - if any at all..............