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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Article in the Wall Street Journal this morning (7/31/01) reported that DirecTV planned to sue individuals who stole its programming. Of course this is irrelevant to everyone here since by definition, there are no hackers on this forum.


Cheers,


Bernd
 

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Bernd you got it there in spending

over $6,000 on legal DVDs I'm not in the mood to go to jail for illegal hacking. Besides my get out of jail free card is in the basement with my old monopoly game

that in all my ears playing with the kids and all that I never lost a game good old Hob.



I had to mention Hob for Hobby less the movie watchers remember there a movie called 5,000,000 Years To Earth. Andrew Keir played Professor Quatermass who was told that a certain lane, was called Hob's lane that the name was pointed out to him, that hob was once a nic name for the Devil! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Hob for Hobby
 

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That may be true, but I'm guessing it mostly applies to people who are making money by distributing cards, card spoofers, and related pc equipment and not individual users of equipment. In my small town recently there was a shakedown that caused several law officers to lose their jobs due to the selling of hacked cards. They did not sell enough to be making much money as I understand yet they were high profile enforcers of law and as such were expected to follow it to the letter regardless. Come to think of it, I did read some of the buyers they sold to were also indicted so who knows. I don't have a problem paying for good programing, but am the first to admit I don't know if the $84 a month I pay is worth it. It does beat having to retain a lawyer at prices in excess of $84! Case closed, now if the DSS customer retention specialist cared enough to keep me as a client! I've got to buy 2 HD Sat receivers and hoped they would give me some credit in programing for staying with DTV even though I can get new Dish HD equipment much cheaper. I wrote DirecTV telling them of my dilema and have not got any response in over a month. Guess what I read about customer retention is not so.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by AudioFileZ:
That may be true, but I'm guessing it mostly applies to people who are making money by distributing cards, card spoofers, and related pc equipment and not individual users of equipment.
They are going after the individual users. They got the names of the users from the equipment providers that they arrested. After all being a criminal on the Internet makes it very easy for law enforcement to track you down and arrest you.


They want to make it extremely expensive to get free DirecTv. If a user thinks they can be caught and forced to pay thousands of dollars, it will no longer be a fun game. The number of individual piracy users will drop dramatically.
 

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This is quite interesting; in a recent Dish conference call, Charlie Ergan said that DirecTV pirating is hurting Dish business too (people get a test card and unsubscribe from Dish, his theory not mine). I don't think that's DTV's problem (!) but it indicates just how serious pirate cards are viewed from all sides, and I have no doubt that they will prosecute individual hackers.


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- Napoleon Wilson, Assault on Precinct 13
 

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A friend of mine got busted and so far he has spent at least $1,000.00 tyring to get out of a messy situation. Aparently one of his friends he bragged to about getting "free" DTV turned him in. The $500.00 he invested in his "special" card is also down the drain. I guess he thought he was too small a fish for DTV to worry about. Needless to say he seriously regrets his decision. Randy
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Lorenz:
I guess he thought he was too small a fish for DTV to worry about. Needless to say he seriously regrets his decision. Randy
If DirecTv gets $6000 out of several hundred thousand people, which may be possible, it is going to add a lot of money to their bottom line.
 

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TechTV had an interesting show a few weeks ago about satellite pirating. Most of it focused on DSS hunting down pirate cards coming in from Canada, where it's perfectly legal to hack the signal. What I can never figure out is why anyone would buy these things off of the internet and give an easily traceable credit card to pay for it.


Going down south of the border, I just visited some folks who have a different way of hacking. Basically, the signal from one decoder is split out a dozen times among the residents of one complex in a low-income area. I wonder if DTV would go after them too? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

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I don't think they plan to make money by extracting it from pirates, they just want to "make an example" out of a few of them to scare others into subscribing legally. They might be lucky enough to cover their costs by going after some wealthy pirate and extracting attorney's fees if they win and show the pirate knowingly and willingly pirated.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dagman:
I don't think they plan to make money by extracting it from pirates, they just want to "make an example" out of a few of them to scare others into subscribing legally. They might be lucky enough to cover their costs by going after some wealthy pirate and extracting attorney's fees if they win and show the pirate knowingly and willingly pirated.
The statement they released said they are going to sue up to a million people. They have a 100K names now with more to come. This only requires sending a cheap letter with a threat to sue if the $6000 dollar check does not quickly arrive.


A lot of people will pay to avoid the high legal cost. I don't think it cost them much to have an automated process of submitting the paper work to the courts.


Mass produced crime also leads to cheap. mass produced legalities.


More people will settle just before going to trial to try and stay out of our expensive legal system. They will make an example out of some that want to go to trial.


They will almost certainly win several cases that they will use against the hold outs. A day or two in court will then automatically cost the person the $6K plus another $5K to $10K in legal fees (my wild guess)and maybe even DirecTv's legal fees.


If there are still people that won't pay, couldn't they then file criminal charges to really set an example?


We don't know how this is going to work out, but it looks like they are playing hardball. It could be a real problem for people caught up in this latest tactic.


[This message has been edited by jackmay (edited 08-03-2001).]
 

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Of course this won't stop the true hackers just ma and pa "Pirate". The people who aquire virgin, or even looped cards. and then program them themselves. This will just stop the people who think buying ilegal materials over the internet is a good idea. Of course it also only effects the people who bought from dealers that kept records...



Holysin


 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerald C:

A copy of the letter that DirecTV's lawyers are supposed to have sent out is at this link, posted by "Ray H"
Looks like the trash trucks will have a few extra boxes to pick up this week and the VISA banks will have a heavy load of refuted charges. "Gosh I never saw that charge until they pointed it out to me."


*I have no affiliation with anything to do with such hacking.



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Would someone be guilty of stealing just because they bought a special card or hardware? Woudnt someone have to prove that the what was purchased was actually in use? Could you buy a card and then give it to someone as a gift? Would a person still be guilty? Is this fencing? Seems like without a search warrant, they would have no evidence of use.


Steve
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by SteveHoltam:
Would someone be guilty of stealing just because they bought a special card or hardware? Woudnt someone have to prove that the what was purchased was actually in use? Could you buy a card and then give it to someone as a gift? Would a person still be guilty? Is this fencing? Seems like without a search warrant, they would have no evidence of use.

Steve
Can people take the risk to go into court and prove they bought the equipment but did not use it. In the unlikely event this is true, the person would risk a lot of money trying to avoid paying the requested $6K penalty.


They are basically saying pay us now no matter what the circumstances were to avoid being bankrupted by going to court. Proving quilt is not required.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bootz:
It'd be tough to prove since it is not illegal to own these devices.

Like drugs, possession is illegal.

The dbsforum link above contains the following paragraph from the Yarmuth letter:

"Congress has made the mere possession of signal theft equipment an offense under federal law. See 18 U.S.C. § 2512(l)(b) (making it illegal to "possess" any electronic, mechanical or other device, knowing or having reason to know that the design of the device renders it primarily useful for the purpose of the surreptitious interception of an encrypted satellite signal). "

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
The statement they released said they are going to sue up to a million people.
Yeah, the proverbial monkeys are gonna fly out of my butt.

Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
This only requires sending a cheap letter with a threat to sue if the $6000 dollar check does not quickly arrive.
That is not a lawsuit, that is just a nasty letter.

Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
A lot of people will pay to avoid the high legal cost. I don't think it cost them much to have an automated process of submitting the paper work to the courts.
That is true, they can get cases started for cheap but if the person doesn't settle quickly, it starts costing DirecTV lots of money.

Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
They will almost certainly win several cases that they will use against the hold outs. A day or two in court will then automatically cost the person the $6K plus another $5K to $10K in legal fees (my wild guess)and maybe even DirecTv's legal fees.
Of course DirecTV has to pay their own legal fees (they may be able to get legal fees from the pirates, but it is by no means a certainty).

Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
If there are still people that won't pay, couldn't they then file criminal charges to really set an example?
They can file a police report but only the state or federal govt. can initiate a criminal proceeding. I seriously doubt they would.

Quote:
Originally posted by jackmay:
We don't know how this is going to work out, but it looks like they are playing hardball.
Though I am skeptical, I do hope they suceed to some degree. We paying subscribers are subsidizing the pirates.
 

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If I was a hacker and I got a letter in the mail telling me to pay $6k I'd laugh my a** off! To all hacked card users; If you were dumb enough to order a card on-line with a credit card, simply burn it, and destroy the device you used it with--end of story. As long as you don't have the merchandise, or any record of ever receiving said merchandise(ie. delivery signature), then all they'll have is a credit card statement--which is easy enough to dispute. In other words, forget the stupid letter and go out and buy brand new equipment--This time, subscribe legally like the rest of us!!!


JediMastr


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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I orginally posted this purely as a matter of providing information.


As I have read through some of the responses, it occurs to me that we (customers of DirecTV who want more HDTV) have a legitimate interest in how this turns out. If DTV is successful in converting people who are stealing their signal to revenue producing customers, then DTV will be more profitable. If DTV becomes more profitable, they are in a better position to invest in the capacity which would allow them to provide us more HDTV content (recognizing that there is no assurance that they would make such a decision).


So, those of us who are legitimately paying for a DBS service should probably hope that DTV is massively sucessful in its pursuit of converting pirates to customers.


At the end of the day, piracy is like shoplifting. It simply raises the price of the stolen service to all of us who pay for it, and reduces the profitability of the stolen service to the supplier of it.


Cheers,


Bernd
 

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A little of the subject, but in the days of cable, a friend of mine had a cable box that he purchased out of state. The box was able to receive all of the purhased channels like HBO and the pay per views. Now this box wasnt a modified box that the cable companies used, but a box that was made t receive all channels. Now, as far as I know, it wasnt illegal to buy or use them as they are advertised on magazines. It was illegal to watch channels that you dont pay for. I know, that sounds stupid. Anyway, one day the cable cops came to my friends parents house when everyone was away except the housekeeper. She had been working on the garage and as such, the garage door was open. Now the housekeeper spoke no english so when the cable cops entered she did not stop them. They entered the house from garage and went to where the tv and cable box was. They took pictures of the cable box and confiscated the box. Remember, it was not a box from the cable company. They sent my friends parents a letter stating that if they did not pay a 1000 penalty (this was at least 12 years ago) they would be taken to court and a 10k penalty would be requested. The only problem with what happened was that the cable company had basically broken into my friends house and stolen personal property. When this piece of info was told to the cable companies legal arm, they subsequently dropped the whole issue. About 1 -2 years later after the cable company had been purchased by another company, my friends parents recieved another letter with the same penalty. Again my friends attorney related the breaking and entering problem and again the issue had been dropped. Its been about 8 years since the second letter and they have never received another letter.


My parents have a friend who used to have a box and one day the cable cops came to her door. When they asked to review her equipment, she refused saying that she had to get dressed and had to leave. She informed them to come later. When they did come later, all of the modified equipment had been replaced by the original cable equipment. They of course let with nothing. Although the cable cops came to the door, they were not entitled to come in without your permission. I do know that other people got caught in other ways. I read a story of how a cable company transmitted a free t-shirt offer on one of their channels. The trick was the only people who could view this offer had an illegal/modified box. Anyone who called in for the t-shirt was immediately caught.
 
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