I'm looking to replace my two MFW-15s with dual sealed subs. Large room with some treatments and an AS-EQ1. HT/Music 60/40. The SB13-Plus seems to have more EQ, etc., but would I benefit from that with the AS-EQ1 already in the loop? The ULS-15s go deeper and look great. Any recommendations?
Dual HSU ULS-15 or Dual SVS SB13-Plus?
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We have to be careful when we say one is deeper than the other. The HSU had built in EQ to lift the bottom end where other sealed subs do not. Once you EQ the low end it will go deep in a room as well. Having said that I would not get either for a large room. I guess it depends on your goal.
I don't know of any groundplane measurements for the ULS-15. There was a review for the SB13 in Sound and Vision which had measurements, but they weren't very detailed measurements. I think the ULS will have stronger deep bass because the subwoofer was engineered for it, whereas the SB13 relies on room gain for deep bass.
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You disagree with what exactly? That the hsu has built in eq to bring up the response or that the SVS subs do not and need us to eq it ? What is the rolloff of the Hsu groundplane? Which one would go deeper? I never said but how deep is deep? What if one has more output to 15 hz but at 10hz and under it switched.
You disagree with what exactly? That the hsu has built in eq to bring up the response or that the SVS subs do not and need us to eq it ? What is the rolloff of the Hsu groundplane? Which one would go deeper? I never said but how deep is deep? What if one has more output to 15 hz but at 10hz and under it switched.
The HSU has, reportedly a ton of boost (I recall Caci mentioning somewhere it was 12db of boost but that seems ridiculous?), but I would imagine the SB13 has built in EQ as well (not sure MK if you were inferring it did not). The SB13 I believe rolls off 2nd order at some point (seems to have an F0 at 32hz and F6 at 20hz), not sure how the HSU rolls off or whether it has some other filter.
Looking at the specs, I'd expect the HSU has 1 to 2db of max CEA output higher than the SB13 across much of the range below 30hz or so and similar above that I would have throught. Question I do have is what happens above 30hz to 100hz though. When the VTF-15H came out there were several mentions of how the mid bass was lacking due to the amount of boost being used chewing up the ULS amp. I.e., is the amp running out of power due to the significant boost being used?
I agree, would be interesting to see the CEA specs for both subs.
With the SB13 you're getting a what looks to be, arguably, a better/more expensive woofer, more powerful amp, considerably more setup options on the amp with DSP. With the ULS, you're still getting a great woofer, amp that has a couple modes to it IIRC (extension vs max output or something?), and of course, RF functionality.
As for fit and finish, both look quite nice.
The HSU has, reportedly a ton of boost (I recall Caci mentioning somewhere it was 12db of boost but that seems ridiculous?), but I would imagine the SB13 has built in EQ as well (not sure MK if you were inferring it did not). The SB13 I believe rolls off 2nd order at some point (seems to have an F0 at 32hz and F6 at 20hz), not sure how the HSU rolls off or whether it has some other filter.
Looking at the specs, I'd expect the HSU has 1 to 2db of max CEA output higher than the SB13 across much of the range below 30hz or so and similar above that I would have throught. Question I do have is what happens above 30hz to 100hz though. When the VTF-15H came out there were several mentions of how the mid bass was lacking due to the amount of boost being used chewing up the ULS amp. I.e., is the amp running out of power due to the significant boost being used?
I agree, would be interesting to see the CEA specs for both subs.
With the SB13 you're getting a what looks to be, arguably, a better/more expensive woofer, more powerful amp, considerably more setup options on the amp with DSP. With the ULS, you're still getting a great woofer, amp that has a couple modes to it IIRC (extension vs max output or something?), and of course, RF functionality.
As for fit and finish, both look quite nice.
Dumb question, but how big is your room? As for the AS-EQ1 question, you'd still have these useful options on the amp of the SB13 which the AS-EQ1 would not compensate for:
High Pass Filter-- Frequency select : 31/40/50/63/80/100/125Hz == Slope select : Disable/-12dB/-24dB
Low Pass Filter -- Frequency select: 31/40/50/63/80/100/125Hz -- Slope select : Disable/-12dB/-24dB
Room Gain Compensation -- Frequency select : 25/31/40Hz -- Slope select : Disable/-6dB/-12dB
The ASEQ1 will have ample PEQ, delay/phase adjustments built in negating the usefulness of these options in the SB13 amp. However, the above options "may" help you tailor the rolloff at x-over to your mains (i.e., the selectable slope settings are cool) and the room compensation "may" help you integrate the sub better in room before resorting to the EQ in the AS-EQ1.
Dumb question, but how big is your room? As for the AS-EQ1 question, you'd still have these useful options on the amp of the SB13 which the AS-EQ1 would not compensate for:
High Pass Filter-- Frequency select : 31/40/50/63/80/100/125Hz == Slope select : Disable/-12dB/-24dB
Low Pass Filter -- Frequency select: 31/40/50/63/80/100/125Hz -- Slope select : Disable/-12dB/-24dB
Room Gain Compensation -- Frequency select : 25/31/40Hz -- Slope select : Disable/-6dB/-12dB
The ASEQ1 will have ample PEQ, delay/phase adjustments built in negating the usefulness of these options in the SB13 amp. However, the above options "may" help you tailor the rolloff at x-over to your mains (i.e., the selectable slope settings are cool) and the room compensation "may" help you integrate the sub better in room before resorting to the EQ in the AS-EQ1.
I would say ULS-15's...not for any particular reason just that I wanted two of them once upon a time. Never really did much research but I think they look better. Why go with the aseq1...why not just pick up a used or demo receiver with audyssey multeq xt32. I saw a Denon 4311 at best buy the other day for $1300.
A year ago I visited a buddy of mine who had dual SVS PB13's and I thought his room sounded incredible with the deep bass, then this past June I went back to visit him and he had replaced the Dual SVS's with dual Hsu 15's and Lord have mercy I thought his room had deep bass before but holy smokes, his dual 15's would take the breath away from you on certain scenes. I love and own my SVS sub but after hearing that Hsu 15" I am trying to find a great excuse (WAF) to bring one in.
Get the Hsu's
Get the Hsu's
i went through the same decision (ULS vs SB13) and ultimately ended up with the SB13 just because my room definitely has some room gain and minor factors like the metal grille (which I feel better about with kids kicking toys around), two tone finish (so the light bouncing off the top of the sub doesn't reflect back onto my projector screen)
You certainly don't need any of the EQ features of the SB if you are using a receiver with XT32 or AS-EQ1, but it's nice to have if you ever want to have a dedicated 2 channel system
I say you can't go wrong with either. The Hsu should have an edge on the low end but the SVS may an edge in the upper (hit region) end due to the more powerful amp. The SVS should be pretty close to the VTF15 running in sealed mode.
You certainly don't need any of the EQ features of the SB if you are using a receiver with XT32 or AS-EQ1, but it's nice to have if you ever want to have a dedicated 2 channel system
I say you can't go wrong with either. The Hsu should have an edge on the low end but the SVS may an edge in the upper (hit region) end due to the more powerful amp. The SVS should be pretty close to the VTF15 running in sealed mode.
The PB13 in 20hz mode would have at least 8 to 10db more output at 20hz. In 15hz mode, it would have more output down to 12hz or so, but down to 15hz likely best the ULS-15 by more than 10db. We also know from HSU that it takes "at least two" ULS-15's to match the "deep bass output" of the VTF-15, and we have numbers showing the VTF-15 is at best close to the PB13 down there. Actually, I'd be willing to bet if the ULS-15 was CEA tested, it would show that the PB13 with its significantly larger box would outperform the ULS-15 across the entire FR band.
So I find these sorts of posts interesting. I wonder if maybe your friend didn't have the PB13 setup properly for his room, or had so much room gain down low that he had to use a room compensation control on the sub (aka high pass filter) which filtered it so much the output down low was neutered with the 4th order roll off of the PB13?
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Anyhow, the simple fact is a sealed subwoofer the size of the ULS-15 is going to need an incredible driver that can withstand lots of power and a powerful amp mated to it to outperform a sub with a 13.5" driver (and I'm guessing a similar radiating area given how large the surround on the ULS-15 driver is). So the only way you would have been that blown away by the difference in "deep bass" is if your friend had the PB13 setup entirely incorrectly.
I really like the SB13's and ULS-15's of the world. They provide great performance in a "small" package. But they aren't giant killers.
The PB13 in 20hz mode would have at least 8 to 10db more output at 20hz. In 15hz mode, it would have more output down to 12hz or so, but down to 15hz likely best the ULS-15 by more than 10db. We also know from HSU that it takes "at least two" ULS-15's to match the "deep bass output" of the VTF-15, and we have numbers showing the VTF-15 is at best close to the PB13 down there. Actually, I'd be willing to bet if the ULS-15 was CEA tested, it would show that the PB13 with its significantly larger box would outperform the ULS-15 across the entire FR band.
So I find these sorts of posts interesting. I wonder if maybe your friend didn't have the PB13 setup properly for his room, or had so much room gain down low that he had to use a room compensation control on the sub (aka high pass filter) which filtered it so much the output down low was neutered with the 4th order roll off of the PB13?
Anyhow, the simple fact is a sealed subwoofer the size of the ULS-15 is going to need an incredible driver that can withstand lots of power and a powerful amp mated to it to outperform a sub with a 13.5" driver (and I'm guessing a similar radiating area given how large the surround on the ULS-15 driver is). So the only way you would have been that blown away by the difference in "deep bass" is if your friend had the PB13 setup entirely incorrectly.
I really like the SB13's and ULS-15's of the world. They provide great performance in a "small" package. But they aren't giant killers.
I would probably go for the sb13's - but I think all of the eq adjustments should be done by the as-eq1 (well everything besides crossover function). It measures in so many positions that it deals all things eq - how the room interacts with the sub (which should be a better solution than room gain-comp. - which I use on my pc12-plus in lack of an external sub-eq device).
I would probably go for the sb13's - but I think all of the eq adjustments should be done by the as-eq1 (well everything besides crossover function). It measures in so many positions that it deals all things eq - how the room interacts with the sub (which should be a better solution than room gain-comp. - which I use on my pc12-plus in lack of an external sub-eq device).
It's a seven-sided room with a cathedral ceiling, about 4500 cubic feet and with several openings to other rooms. I understand that limits room gain, perhaps especially for sealed subs, but I am not looking for sheer output.
The reason I went with the AS-EQ1 is that I have a 4310 that has features I like that the 4311 does not have, particularly Surround B for multi-channel music. I don't care about 3D. Plus, I got an extremely sweet deal on it when the 4311 came out.
It's a seven-sided room with a cathedral ceiling, about 4500 cubic feet and with several openings to other rooms. I understand that limits room gain, perhaps especially for sealed subs, but I am not looking for sheer output.
The reason I went with the AS-EQ1 is that I have a 4310 that has features I like that the 4311 does not have, particularly Surround B for multi-channel music. I don't care about 3D. Plus, I got an extremely sweet deal on it when the 4311 came out.
That's a fair sized room, so you may not get the room gain you'd want for a sealed system with less EQ. I'd probably opt for the ULS's as well, or you'd have to get a separate EQ for the SB13's. Only other consideration is what speakers you have and where you cross them. At 80 I don't see much difference between the two subs, above 80hz, the edge "may" go to the SB if in fact the ULS's are amp limited due to the EQ boost down low??
why did he replace two top grade $1500 subs with two $1000 subs? That doesn't really make any sense. The PB13 can be run in sealed mode so if he wanted a sealed sound, he didn't need to get rid of his PB13
I find the "claim" interesting too, because objectvely, the PB13 would outperform the ULS. There is obviously some piece of information missing (maybe he had to change sub locations because the PB13's didn't fit well).
why did he replace two top grade $1500 subs with two $1000 subs? That doesn't really make any sense. The PB13 can be run in sealed mode so if he wanted a sealed sound, he didn't need to get rid of his PB13
I find the "claim" interesting too, because objectvely, the PB13 would outperform the ULS. There is obviously some piece of information missing (maybe he had to change sub locations because the PB13's didn't fit well).
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I love my PC-13 ultra and can't imagine a sub that could sound better.........but if I had the ULS-15's, I'd probably say the same........I don't think you can go wrong with either.
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