[threed123]

Had a friend of a friend that set up a dual layer dvd using a hack and then paid over $15 a disc to rip some movies. Ah, the mentally challenged know no bounds of decency when the original DVDs could be had for less or about the same price. Apparently: Stealing isn't everything, it's the only thing..to paraphrase a famous quote...


Bob

 

[csmith75]

That's hilarious!!

 

[JeffWld]

Quote:

Originally posted by threed123 Ah, the mentally challenged know no bounds of decency when the original DVDs could be had for less or about the same price.

They are also the same kind of people who believe that dual layer media should cost 50 cents each by next Tuesday...and will feel deprived of their rights when it isn't.

 

[twitch]

If the current off-the-wall pricing is any guide then DL discs seem to be aimed at pro market. Investing $12-15 into a write-once blank, then $3-5 into a DVD rental, then your time & effort all in order to make a clone is clearly retarded. And don't forget that contrary to makers' rosy predictions the compatability rate with set-top decks doesn't even exceed 20%. Then again, back in the 2nd 1/2 of the 1990s Pio DVD burner that only recorded onto 3.95GB discs was going for about $5K. So give it time.

Last fall Pio demoed somewhere in Asia their own -R 8.5GB disc which unlike SONY/PHILIPS didn't even require a new drive. Pio simply dumped a firmware upgrade into their then current drive and made it compatible. And they said it'd coming out in calendar '05. Yeah, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed .

 

[Kelson]

It's all a question of volume. DL is new. Few manufacturers make them. Even fewer people are buying them. Give it a year. DL media will be in the $1 range, speed will be 4-8X and it will be extended to -R/RW format as well. I think DL in the -RW format is a key technology requirement to get DVD recorders in more homes. 4hr of recording capability at SP quality will cover most sporting events at excellent picture quality. Face it, with the exception of certain brands recordings beyond SP don't look too hot compared to analog VHS. 4hr DVD quality recording at a sub $300 pricetag is a marketing winner especially with those consumers looking to replace their old DVD players -- for another $200 they can get a recorder/player. I paid more thatn that for my first stereo VCR.

 

[Jay Davis]

Funny - how some things you remember. And, vividly. I paid $630.00 for my first VCR. It wasn't even stereo. Wired remote too. I paid $11.50 for blank tapes. Oh, the good old days. .


I agree with KESON. Most NFL games go for 3 and 1/2 hours. Had to record in slow speed on my VCR to make sure I had the entire game. Dual layer (when prices come down) will change things. That and reliable $300.00 recorders could give the entire industry a boost. Then HD. Who needs S-X.

 

[Best Buy Guy]

twitch, your poor choice of words shows who and what is "clearly retarded"

 

[Version]

?


What was that for?

Quote:

Investing $12-15 into a write-once blank, then $3-5 into a DVD rental, then your time & effort all in order to make a clone is clearly retarded.

It may not be eloquent but he has a point. Quit stealing and go buy the movie.

 

[threed123]

Let's not get carried away. I think twitch's point was: regardless of whether it's legal or not, it doesn't make economic sense, therefore it's "retarded" thinking anyway you want to look at it...It's part of my point.


The art of stealing, sometimes has nothing to do with the logic of why you are breaking the law in the first place--some people do it just for the kick of being able to do it. Like hackers or virus creators: they rarely if ever make an $$$ from their misadventures--it's more the joy of doing. It's my reasoning why movie and music makers put too much emphasis on preventing their work from being stolen rather than finding venues that can be profitable given the technology at work in their enterprise. Some will certainly argue the point, but until the industry comes to grips with the fundamental issues, they are doomed to keep trying to keep those that will do at any cost, what they do...\\


For example--rather than trying to put a thumb in the **** of cost free downloading of songs (Kazaa, Napster, etc.), the industry could have recognized the opportunity of creating specialized download sites with tremendous audio capabilities for $1 a song long before it came to this.


Same with DVDs and downloading of movies--it's coming, but too slow. Once the dual layer technology gets to be a $1 and the recorders cost $40, it will be too late, and I think most of you agree that this will happen in a year or two at most.


Bob

 

[twitch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Best Buy Guy twitch, your poor choice of words shows who and what is "clearly retarded"

Dude, don't tell me you spent $18 to make a copy of a movie that could've been bought for $12 in a sealed box, lmao.


On another note, quality DL discs won't be priced at $1 not next year, nor the year after. When I bought the DVR-7000 3 years ago blank Pio DVD-RWs were going for $20 a pop. Today I have yet to see a price below $2 for half-decent rewritable media. And even then it's either a pack deal or a sale item. Not to mention that at $2 it seldom if ever is made in japan. In other words, in the course of 36 months we witnessed a 90% price drop. But you also have to remember that DLs are less common than -RWs which are less common than -Rs. Thus each is subject to its own unique price fluctuations.

Frankly one has to question the marketing wisdom of releasing the DL now when hi-def DVDs are only 18 months away.

 

[TonyW79SFV]

The price will eventually come down. Remember the days of $5000 DVD burners and $30 DVD-Rs? CD-Rs were no different when they were released about a decade ago. It's just funny how a single DVD-R disc can be more cheaper than VHS tapes nowadays. I don't bother with VHS anymore, for anything, except copying old home videos to MiniDV or DVD.

 

[Kelson]

Quote:

Originally posted by twitch Dude, don't tell me you spent $18 to make a copy of a movie that could've been bought for $12 in a sealed box, lmao. On another note, quality DL discs won't be priced at $1 not next year, nor the year after. When I bought the DVR-7000 3 years ago blank Pio DVD-RWs were going for $20 a pop. Today I have yet to see a price below $2 for half-decent rewritable media. And even then it's either a pack deal or a sale item. Not to mention that at $2 it seldom if ever is made in japan. In other words, in the course of 36 months we witnessed a 90% price drop. But you also have to remember that DLs are less common than -RWs which are less common than -Rs. Thus each is subject to its own unique price fluctuations. Frankly one has to question the marketing wisdom of releasing the DL now when hi-def DVDs are only 18 months away.

You can get Ritek 4X DVD-RW at NewEgg for $22/25pack (0.88 each). I use them all the time and in my experience they have been perfectly reliable -- not a single coaster and I've re-written them. Things are always cheaper in bulk, DL will be also. In little more than a years time I would not be surprised to see bulk packs of DL at the $1/disk pricepoint.


On your other point, it could go either way. The penetration of digital TVs capable of Hi-Def is still pretty small, the population of SD-TV still overwhelms it. So from that standpoint, DL could be a real winner in the short term since it would fill a real gap in the SD domain. On the other hand, HiDef DVD could be the real catalyst that revs up the penetration of DTV. Either way I feel affordable consumer-level HD recording is still more than a couple years off. DL seems to be a logical evolutionary path.

 

[dixon2k1]

Experiment whether DL is compatible with any player. We copied three commercial movies and played them on the various stand alone DVD players as well as on computer DVD Rom. (We didn't want to steal so we use movies we already own--back up/fair use rules.)


So far, compatability with stand alone DVD players--1 in 5. Of the three movies, they would randomly play or not play on a Panny DMR e50, Zenith DVB 318, Panni 5 disc player, wouldn't play on Samsung, plays on Sony DVD players. Sometimes it will play in one of the players, but it can get stuck in one track--have to shut down the machine. Can't tell if it is a firmware fixable, disc burner not matching DVD players' laser, or burning software problem. They always play on DVD-RW installed in our Dell computers, which adds to the mystery.


Conclusion: stupid to use for backing up movies (expensive and incompatible), ok for backing up gigantic hard disks if saving time is more important than per disc media cost.

 

[Kelson]

Quote:

Originally posted by dixon2k1 Experiment whether DL is compatible with any player. We copied three commercial movies and played them on the various stand alone DVD players as well as on computer DVD Rom. (We didn't want to steal so we use movies we already own--back up/fair use rules.) So far, compatability with stand alone DVD players--1 in 5. Of the three movies, they would randomly play or not play on a Panny DMR e50, Zenith DVB 318, Panni 5 disc player, wouldn't play on Samsung, plays on Sony DVD players. Sometimes it will play in one of the players, but it can get stuck in one track--have to shut down the machine. Can't tell if it is a firmware fixable, disc burner not matching DVD players' laser, or burning software problem. They always play on DVD-RW installed in our Dell computers, which adds to the mystery. Conclusion: stupid to use for backing up movies (expensive and incompatible), ok for backing up gigantic hard disks if saving time is more important than per disc media cost.

Thank you for the initial data. Let me add there could be another issue impacting compatibility with players. DL is +R format, +R was made a standard only ~2 yrs ago and there are a lot of players that won't play it. I just looked at a bunch of players specs before I bought a new one recently and they all support -R, almost all support -RW, but a lot do not support + format, particularly Panasonic. Sony was one of the ones that supported +/-R/RW which is why I bought theirs. I noticed in your post that the disks played on the Sony, no surprise.

 

[JeffWld]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelson I just looked at a bunch of players specs before I bought a new one recently and they all support -R, almost all support -RW, but a lot do not support + format, particularly Panasonic.

Although Panasonic doesn't list +R support (out of politics), my Panasonic RP91, RP82, and RV-32 all play +R without any problems. In fact, the Pansonics recognize and load the disc to menu display in half the time it takes them to deal with a -R disc.


The same applies to my old JVC player manufactured in December 2000. It plays +R perfectly despite the fact that JVC never included (and still doesn't) +R support in their specs.

 

[jsl_80]

Quote:

Originally posted by dixon2k1 Experiment whether DL is compatible with any player. We copied three commercial movies and played them on the various stand alone DVD players as well as on computer DVD Rom. (We didn't want to steal so we use movies we already own--back up/fair use rules.) So far, compatability with stand alone DVD players--1 in 5. Of the three movies, they would randomly play or not play on a Panny DMR e50, Zenith DVB 318, Panni 5 disc player, wouldn't play on Samsung, plays on Sony DVD players. Sometimes it will play in one of the players, but it can get stuck in one track--have to shut down the machine. Can't tell if it is a firmware fixable, disc burner not matching DVD players' laser, or burning software problem. They always play on DVD-RW installed in our Dell computers, which adds to the mystery. Conclusion: stupid to use for backing up movies (expensive and incompatible), ok for backing up gigantic hard disks if saving time is more important than per disc media cost.

It sounds like you're doing something wrong. Three things to think about when writing a DL disc to get good compatibility:


1. Use a writer that supports writing the disc with DVD-ROM book type instead of DVD+R DL book type.


2. Don't use Nero or some other crap software that have bugs related to DL writing.


3. Don't use Ritek DL discs because the quality sucks. Use Verbatim/Mitsubishi discs.


Following this advice you should get a compatibility of about 90 % or so.

 

[brewerboy]

Quote:

Originally posted by jsl_80 It sounds like you're doing something wrong. Three things to think about when writing a DL disc to get good compatibility: 1. Use a writer that supports writing the disc with DVD-ROM book type instead of DVD+R DL book type. 2. Don't use Nero or some other crap software that have bugs related to DL writing. 3. Don't use Ritek DL discs because the quality sucks. Use Verbatim/Mitsubishi discs. Following this advice you should get a compatibility of about 90 % or so.

jsl,


have you had good compatability results? I have tried all of the above with not much luck. What is your setup & players that you have gotten to work? My results are in-line with the very low success rates. Only 1 in 3 players has worked for me.


DVD-ROM bookmark is only an issue if you are using an older DVD player from what I understand. But I tried it as well, no go.


I have tried Verbatim, no luck.


And for all of the rest of the argument, sure it doesn't make economic sense. Some of us like to tinker & be in on the latest.

 

[webscout]

[Funny - how some things you remember. And, vividly. I paid $630.00 for my first VCR. It wasn't even stereo. Wired remote too. I paid $11.50 for blank tapes. Oh, the good old days.] . Jay Davis


For sure. .....I sure love the 'good new days'....DVD-R 's of good quality for .40c and DVD Recorder/Player prices that r falling...as I write.


Ther is a ton of stuff out there..very competitive. Lots of inventory to be cleared out...to make way for the new stuff.

Productivity is at an all time high....thanks to Asia

 

[john ross]

If I could hack my pioneer 510 and increase the hd I probably wouldnt care if they came out 200 hour dvds. I could record all my movies to the hard drive and the heck with the disks!

 

[canue]

Dell is selling the dual layer released 10/04/04 and I got me one but I sure am going to wait for the prices to come down, my option was only $229. I am sure that the Sonic DVD software will pay for it self. I'll stick to what's paid for in the I-8600 with a CDR/RW and a DVD+R/RW dual layer. One thing puzzles me the DVD has a region change in the the DVD drive, I didn't know the DL had a region free recorder/player.