[starscomeout]

Hi All,

This may seem like a dumb question to most, but what is 7.1 and is it available now? I am getting ready to start construction on my HT room next week and was considering the Denon 4802 (which I believe is 6.1) and a pair of Polk F/X500i (which are Bipole/Dipole) for the back wall and a pair for the sides. I will also add a rear center for EX. Correct me if I am wrong, but if the 6.1 is all that is available to me now, then do I hookup the right rear and right side rear together, and the same for the left?

I have not looked at or purchased a new receiver since my Denon 3300, so I have not kept up to date on what is new, so I want to make sure I am not missing something.


Have a Safe and Happy Thanksgiving!


Don

 

[MaxC]

The 7.1 configuration is out. It incorporates a right rear and left rear to the already common 5.1 which has a surround left, surround right, main left, main right, center, and subwoofer LFE.

 

[MaxC]

I took a look at the back of one, and if I remember correctly it has a surround A (left/right), surround B (left/right), and a SBsurround/multi (left/right). I do not own a Denon, so I am not sure but I am guessing the following:


I am guessing that you can have two sets of surrounds (A,B). I am assuming that this is so you can hook up a pair of direct speakers (for 5.1 music) and a pair of dipoles (for movies) and switch between A and B....or maybe have both sets on at the same time for larger rooms?


As far as the SBsurround/multi...I am guessing this is your "Surround Back". You can hook up one or two back speakers (left/right) but they will be putting out the same material not a discrete signal, so it will be 6.1..otherwise it looks like it could be 7.1. The multi, probably means that this terminal can also be used as a second setup for a pair of main speakers in another room.


I would definately ask someone who knows Denons better or who has read through the 4802 booklet.

 

[starscomeout]

Thanks Max,

I appreciate your effort and time you have taken to help me.


Best Regards,

Don

 

[Ronald K]

Don


5.1 and 6.1 are formats that have 5 or 6 discrete channels in the audio source (a DVD etc.) plus the LFE.


There is no audio source that has 7 discrete channels. However, some of the better pre amps (lexicon etc.) have the ability to interpret 2 channel, dolby digital, dts es, etc. sound sources, and process them so that there are 7 channels (front left/right, front center, back left/right, side left/right plus sub left/right and LFE).


Dolby Pro Logic II (DLP II) and Logic 7 are the names of the most common listening modes that do this.


They do it so well that most experts prefer listening to both cinema and music sources in these modes versus the other formats.


Hope this helps


Ron

 

[sfogg]

Ron,


". However,some of the better pre amps (lexicon etc.) have the ability to interpret 2 channel, dolby digital, dts es, etc. sound sources, and process them so that there are 7 channels (front left/right, front center, back left/right, side left/right plus sub left/right and LFE).


Dolby Pro Logic II (DLP II) and Logic 7 are the names of the most common listening modes that do this. "


DPLII is a 5 channel surround format, it doesn't have the ability to steer between side and rear speakers. It also only works on 2 channel sources be it broadcast TV, CDs, DD 2.0 sources (though not all processors can handle this) or whatever.


Shawn

 

[MaxC]

Quote:

Dolby Pro Logic II (DLP II) and Logic 7 are the names of the most common listening modes that do this. They do it so well that most experts prefer listening to both cinema and music sources in these modes versus the other formats.

Neither of those two listening modes are discrete and I would never down grade my movie listening experience from a discrete DD or DTS to Dolby Prologic II or Logic 7. You can also get 6.1 that is not discrete (DD EX) and 6.1 that is discrete (DTS ES).

 

[sfogg]

"Neither of those two listening modes are discrete and I would never down grade my movie listening experience from a discrete DD or DTS to Dolby Prologic II or Logic 7. "


How would running 5.1 Logic 7 be a downgrade?


It decodes all 5.1 channels from DD or DTS (or 6 channels of DTS ES Discrete) then applies additional processing on top of that to extract 4 surround channels from the 2 discrete channels in the mix.


The result is a much more seamless rear soundstage on ambiance effects. And with directional effects you get better front to rear panning.


Go find your local Lexicon dealer and take your favorite DVDs and ask for a 7 channel demo on a MC-12. Listen in 5.1 Logic 7. Midway through a scene with great ambiance try pressing the 7/5 button on the remote.


Shawn

 

[MaxC]

I have listened to Logic 7 on Harmon Kardons at stores. Is this the same as 5.1 Logic 7? It only stated that Logic 7 produced 5.1 channel sound from a 2-channel analog source on their specs. This makes it sound like it took stereo sources and made up a surround field based on that (like Dolby Prologic/II). Good for watching VHS but a downgrade for DVD.


So you are saying that it will accept a DD/DTS digital source and play the 5.1 or 6.1 source as is, but add a 7th non-discrete channel? If so, how is the 7th channel better than a single discrete 6.1 setup or a setup with 7 channels matrixed to 7.1?

 

[sfogg]

Max,


"I have listened to Logic 7 on Harmon Kardons at stores. Is this the same as 5.1 Logic 7?"


No, totally different. The Logic 7 you listened to in the H/K was the version that works on 2 channel material and it was also limited to 5 channel playback. Additionally, it lacks all the adjustment parameters that Logic 7 in a Lexicon has.


"It only stated that Logic 7 produced 5.1 channel sound from a 2-channel analog source on their specs."


Yes, that is correct but it that applies *only* to the Harmon Kardon receivers.. and they actually can apply Logic 7 to digital PCM sources too like CDs.


They can not, however, apply Logic 7 to a full Dolby Digital (or DTS) 5.1 soudtrack (called 5.1 Logic 7) to turn it into a 7 channel presentation.


For that you need a Lexicon, every processor since the DC-1 can do it.


If you ever get a chance you should check it out sometime. I *highly* doubt you will think it is a downgrade.


Shawn

 

[MaxC]

Cool...you answered my edited questions..

 

[sfogg]

Max,


"So you are saying that it will accept a DD/DTS digital source and play the 5.1 or 6.1 source as is, but add a 7th non-discrete channel? "


It accepts DD/DTS and matrixes out 2 additional surround channels. Or in the case of DTS ES Discrete turns the rear mono channel into stereo.


" If so, how is the 7th channel better than a single discrete 6.1 setup or a setup with 7 channels matrixed to 7.1?"


You should download the 'Theory and Design' manual from Lexicon's website. It explains a lot of the thinking about having side+rear speakers.

http://www.lexicon.com/downloads/mc1_downloads.asp#5


It is a very good read if you are at all interested in surround sound.


The basic benefit is as I outlined above. A much more seamless coherent rear soundstage, a better sense of the acoustic space (at least for music) and also smoother pans between front to rear.


Shawn