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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there a major jump in picture quality between the DVD-1600 and DVD-5900? Right now I'm connecting the DVD player to a 50" plasma with component cables. I know the DVD-5900 will let me use the HDMI inputs (which I'm currently using for my Time Warner cable box); so that alone should be somewhat of an improvement. But overall would I notice a major difference in video quality?


The DVD player will also be my CD player - is there any quality difference between the two for CD?


Thanks for the help...
 

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I currently own a 1600 and have auditioned the 5900 in my same system. The 5900 is on back order :mad:


I can only speak on the component side. I evaluated both the 5900 and Pioneer 59 in this thread


The 5900 has DVI not HDMI. The video quality and especially audio quality of the 5900 is better the 1600 in every aspect IMHO in my system especially for redbook CD. For specifics see the above thread. Is it worth the price difference? I would say for most people "No". For those who want the top end stuff and have top end gear properly calibrated and are willing to take a hit in the diminishing returns area (me!) then yes, the price difference is justified.
 

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Well, I've been monitoring this forum for a while now, and finally decided to join in the fun!


drago1919,


I haven't seen the DVD-1600, but I did own the DVD-3800, and currently own the DVD-5900. FWIW, I thought that the 3800 was awesome when I first got it, but to be honest, once I got the 5900, it was no contest (I'm using it through it's DVI port). The picture was clearer, richer, and dare I say it, more "film like." It really depends if you're planning on using it through DVI, because from what I've read on the other forums, while the picture through it's component outs is superior to the other Denon dvd players, the difference is only marginal and may not justify the jump in price. From what you've posted, you're going to be using it through the DVI, to your plasma, and that's what this baby was made for! DVI apparently shines through digital mediums like plasmas, LCD's, and DLP's (I have a RPTV), so that may be your ticket. But alas, nothing in this world is perfect. There is one caveat. The MACROBLOCKING BUG. It appears that in some dark scenes of some poorly mastered dvd's, there are visible "blocks", that lurk in the picture. It can be minimized with some calibration and tweaking, but it may be a deal killer for you. With that said, there are discussions on the other forums, that involve possible future firmwares. Now cd, dvd-a, and sa-cd, are a whole different story. To me personally, the difference in sonic quality alone justifies the price, with the biggest benefactor being the venerable compact disc IMHO. And if you buy a different power cable to stock one that comes with the unit (controversial, I know), the potential is there, for better performance. Anyway, the 3800's cd sound stage was good, but always sounded a bit muddled. Not so with the 5900. I am hearing details in many of my favs that I had never heard before. Now I am talking music that I have owned for YEARS. Better defined, tighter bass. Clearer, warmer, more detailed highs. And a midrange that I am apparently barely being introduced to, because, I had never heard it before! last but not least, full digital bass management for dvd-a and sa-cd (although the dsd stream must be converted to pcm)! It really depends on what your uses are. Do I regret the jump into hyperspace? NEVER!


Juan
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks a lot for the insight from both of you guys. It does seem that it would be a big upgrade for video quality (especially considering DVI) and an even bigger upgrade for audio.


Guess I'll start my search for a dealer tomorrow.


Thanks agian.


Drago1919
 

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You can still use the DVI output on the 5900 with your plasma. There are quite a few DVI->HDMI connectors out there. The picture difference will be better using the 5900 this way, especially in depth and detail.


The "macroblocking" problem was solved, but Denon has not released a firmware fix for it yet. Hopefully soon, but I wouldn't hold off on this player because of that. I have no doubts that Denon will have a fix soon. The audio stage will be a huge step up from the 1600, almost apples and oranges.
 

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Juan,


I notice that you say you have a RPTV and are also using the 5900's DVI output instead of it's component output.


What RPTV do you have? Much of what I have read says that it's rare that one can see any advantage of DVI over component with an RPTV. I believe that for DVI to produce superior PQ to component on an RPTV, the digital to analog video conversion(s) in the player have to be inferior to the digital to analog video conversions in the RPTV. (As you know, the overall digital to analog video conversions inside the 5900 are superb, so I was curious as to what RPTV you have.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Kris and others..


Can you guys recommend one DVI switcher versus another? I read a review somewhere (probably here) that the Gefen 4x1 was the best out there - is that true? Is there any loss in quality when using a switcher?
 

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Phil,


I have a Toshiba 42HDX82 that is hooked up through DVI:D, but I'm strongly considering getting either a DLP or LCD set.


Juan
 

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drago1919,


From what I've read, when the subject of DVI switchers comes up, the Geffen switcher is often mentioned and with really good reviews (sorry that I can't think of any off hand) and no mention of any loss in signal quality. As a matter of fact, I'm looking at getting one since I have both a Denon 5900 and Bravo D-1. The Denon doesn't do OAR on full screen dvd's through DVI!:mad: However, I can't give up that worderful sound!:D


Juan
 

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There is still analog filtering done in normal DVD players that is not done in a RPTV, this is bypassed with the DVI output. While the overall quality isn't quite as good as it would be with a digital display device, there are still inherent benefits that are noticeable.
 

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Kris,


With any CRT based display you of course have to convert to analog somewhere to drive video at the CRT cathodes.


This requires a (video) DAC. I believe some or all of the filtering you are referring to (Noise Shaped Video, anti-aliasing, frequency multiplying, etc.) is to eliminate or reduce video DAC noise. If one wishes to clean up the PQ after a video DAC operation, this filtering must be in place - either in a player feeding a CRT RPTV display via component cabling or in the CRT display after it's own video DAC's but before it's CRT cathodes.


The only argument I can see for DVI to ever create a better CRT image than component from the player (all other issues being under control and optimzed) is perhaps that a last minute conversion to analog and it's filtering located close to the cathodes may be a bit "cleaner" than doing this back in the player and then having to transport analog video over some length of video cabling.


I assumed Juan's Tosh 42HDX82 was "CRT based" because he used the term "RPTV". But of course as we speak, they now offer DLP and LCOS "RPTV's". I don't know what display technology is in Juan's Tosh.
 

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Phil,


FWIW, my Tosh is CRT based. After reading your post, I am just a bit confused. I was under the inmpression that DVI allowed for a "pure" digital connection, with no D/A conversions. I'm aware, that DVI is at its best with non CRT monitors and I was kind of hoping that the rules would not "magically" apply to my Tosh! Your comments regarding a possible conversion prior to reaching the CRT, appear to make sense, as my image has less noise and is clearer, but that may be attributable to any lessened (however present) D/A conversion stages.


Juan
 

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Phil - There's another advantage that using a DVI connection with a CRT RPTV can have. By sending an HDTV-res signal from the 5900 to the display, you can bypass the TV's line doubler. This works with my 5900/Hitachi 57SWX20B combo. I let the Denon do the upconversion to 1080i, feed it to my display via DVI, and take the Hitachi's upconversion processing out of the loop. If the Faroudja does a better job than the display (likely) you will probably notice improvements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I got my 5900 today.. Hooked it up via DVI and WOW! Picture quality improvement was definetly worth the price of entry (or at least I'll keep telling myself that until the credit card bill arrives!)..


I'll have to wait for my B&W in-wall speakers to get installed to demo the sound quality; but if it's anything close to the video quality improvement then I'm sure it will be more than fine ).


Thanks to all for your advice. Now I'm off to get that Gefen DVI switcher.


Drago1919
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by drago1919
I got my 5900 today..
Damn you :D I ordered my 5900 before Christmas and it still "ain't" hasn't arrived yet. Are you US guys hogging all the stock?


congrats - I'm sure you will be equally impressed with the Audio Quality.
 

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drago1919,


I've had the DVD-910, DVD-5900, and the Samsung HD931. The 910 out of the box looked pretty good w/minor tweaking. Same w/the Sammy. The 5900 unfortunately even after a week of trying to tweak still could not come close to a decent picture. The picture I was getting had a lot of "shimmers" or video noise. I ended up returning it to Crutchfield.


My suggestion would be to audition it from a vendor with a good return policy and try it out.


I ended replacing it a Philips Q50AT.
 

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Phil and dpippel:


I am confused by the following two posts of yours:


"There's another advantage that using a DVI connection with a CRT RPTV can have. By sending an HDTV-res signal from the 5900 to the display, you can bypass the TV's line doubler. This works with my 5900/Hitachi 57SWX20B combo. I let the Denon do the upconversion to 1080i, feed it to my display via DVI, and take the Hitachi's upconversion processing out of the loop. If the Faroudja does a better job than the display (likely) you will probably notice improvements."


"Much of what I have read says that it's rare that one can see any advantage of DVI over component with an RPTV. I believe that for DVI to produce superior PQ to component on an RPTV, the digital to analog video conversion(s) in the player have to be inferior to the digital to analog video conversions in the RPTV. (As you know, the overall digital to analog video conversions inside the 5900 are superb, so I was curious as to what RPTV you have.)"


Which statement is correct?


Does a better video DAC in the source player output a higher PQ via DVI relative to component for CRT-based HDTV sets, or another way around?


I understand that in the case of hi-res audio, analog output from a source player with better audio DACs can produce higher sound than the digital i-Link. But I am confused about the hi-res video process, especially in the case of CRT-based HDTVs.


Peter
 
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