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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in the process of getting a DVD/CD changer. Specifically looking at the Yamaha DVD CX1 and the 940 model. One is capable of DVD-A (CX-1) and the other is SACD capable. As of now I have NO DVD-A or SACD discs and I'm not even sure which way myself or the industry is going. Having said that which player would you recommend and which direction is the industry heading towards, DVD-A or SACD, or both? Which player would get more utilization based on the capable formats?


The Yamaha 2300 is out because I want a changer. I also make my own DVDs so the player must be DVD+R and+RW compatible.


Thanks..
 

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The industry is trying to sell both to us but I believe Joe Six Pack will never buy into either.

Audiophools that have heard both on either a hi end player or modified multi players all prefer the Sacd sonics over DVD-A.


Because SACD has a huge head start on titles and dual layered discs and the fact that Audiophools are buying mainly SACD'S, not to mention the only rag I have seen endorse one over the other was Widescreen Review, who has preached about SACD's superior sonics for over two years now.


Ironic that a video rag picked the format without dvd in the title but they deserve kudos for having a set and not sitting on the fence.


I recomend SACD if you can only choose one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Earz
Audiophools that have heard both on either a hi end player or modified multi players all prefer the Sacd sonics over DVD-A.
To summarize what Earz is saying, “phools prefer sacdâ€! ;) :p
 

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I really enjoy both SACD and DVD-Audio, mainly because they are mastered for multi-channel playback (which adds a lot for me) and to a lesser degree because they have more resolution. Usually, the recordings are made with 24 bits, and in soft passages that could make a difference, although few recordings truly have extended soft passages.


The last difference is that SACD and DVD-Audio can be recorded at higher bit rates: 96k or 192k instead of 44k. Since the extensions are at an inaudible level, you might think this is unimportant, but in fact it is useful: those higher bit levels allow gentler filters to be used, avoiding problems with phase distortion. This is nice, but a less significant factor.


But, in any case, I like multi-channel recordings. It is definitely an improvement in many cases.
 

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I think both both formats are a distinct sonic improvement over conventional CD, though for different reasons. In very un-technical terms, I find SACD to have a richer, warmer sound and DVD-A to be more dynamic with greater presence. It may be worth your while to search out a "universal" player that has the changer you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As of right now, which has a more robust presence? SACD or DVD-A? I haven't been to a record (CD) store in a while. Perhaps a look is in order.


I haven't found a universal changer as of yet, but the breadth of my search has been limited. Remember that DVD+R/RW is a MUST.
 

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I'm not as good as professional audiophile reviewers at throwing around adjectives to describe the electronic reproduction of music, but using the dictionary definition of "robust" I'd probably say it applies better to DVD-A. On the other hand, having recently listened to the SACD multi-channel version of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, I'd say "robust" would certainly describe that disk.


I'd recommend the Denon DVD 2900 as a great universal player. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it has DVD+R/RW playback capability.
 

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I don't know how you could even compare the two without having something that was recorded in both formats, and KNOW that they were both mastered to sound the same. I've heard DVD-As that sound much better than SACDs, and vice versa. Personally, I think the differences in the recordings and mixes themselves, and the limitations of the rest of your system as well as your ears will make a much larger impact than the actual format. They both sound great. I wouldn't be surprised if these went in the same direction as DVD-r/rw and DVD+r/rw are going: the hardware will commonly become universal, and the difference will only be the media (and the artists available on each). SACD has the advantage (in the case of hybrid discs) of being able to be played on standard CD players (in standard two channel sonics, of course). DVD-A has the advantage of having tracks that can be played on standard DVD players (and in multichannel sound to boot). I've read that DVD-A is supposed to be coming out with a dual layer format that can also be played on a standard CD player, but don't know where that is.


If you have to pick one, I'd pick the one that has (or looks like it's going to have) the biggest number of artists you're interested in (some are recording in both). For SACD, you might look at this list , and for DVD-A, this one . Don't know if those are the most comprehensive lists available, but they are a start.


You may want to consider getting a cheap universal player... in other words, the Pioneer 563a. It will do +R/RW, and just about anything else you throw at it . In my opinion, this is a great player for the money. It's biggest flaw is that it's built in bass management has the crossover set too high (120hz for SACD, and 100hz for DVD-A). As cheap as it is, you could simply live with that flaw for a year or so until better universal player options come out, or you could mate it with an IMCB to get better bass management and STILL be lower in total price than other universal players.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Darin


If you have to pick one, I'd pick the one that has (or looks like it's going to have) the biggest number of artists you're interested in (some are recording in both)....You may want to consider getting a cheap universal player... in other words, the Pioneer 563a....It's biggest flaw is that it's built in bass management has the crossover set too high (120hz for SACD, and 100hz for DVD-A).
Agree that availability of favorite artists in the respective format is key factor, since both formats do sound good. However, with the Pioneer 563a you're not doing justice to SACD since it's not true DSD.

BTW, anyone know in which high resolution format The Beatles' catalogue is likely to surface?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by s2silber
However, with the Pioneer 563a you're not doing justice to SACD since it's not true DSD.
Some may argue that point. ;) Despite the fact that we know from a press release that the Philips chip it uses does do DSD to PCM conversion, maybe it depends on whether or not you are using the player's built in bass management & time alignment, as I do believe that I've read that the DACs used CAN handle DSD directly. The point is rather moot to me anyway... I have yet to read anything beyond conjecture that any degradation from such a conversion could be audibly detectable. DVD-A and SACD both sound better to me than redbook CD, and MY hearing certainly isn't refined enough to differentiate between the two. Of course, I have a very average system, and I've never been one to get all worked up over high dollar interconnects and other esoteric gadgets purported to squeeze that last little bit of sonic accuracy out of your system. Sometimes I think people spend so much time trying to discern differences that may or may not be there, that they forget to simply enjoy the music. But that's just me. :)


Oh, and to answer your question, I've read that since DTS and EMI have recently agreed to create and distribute DVD-Audio titles, that this could mean that the Beatles could be coming to DVD-a. Don't know if that's true or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
First off I need to apologize for my wording of 'robust presence.' After re-reading my post I realize it came across as if I was referring to its sound, when actually I was wondering which format had more discs in the store. In other words, would I be more likely to find a higher number of SACDs or DVD-As when I walked into Tower Records.
 

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Hmmm, well I think that's going to depend on the store, but as far as releases go, I believe SACD is definately ahead. If you look at the links I posted earlier, SACDinfo.com lists 1443 SACDs, while highfidelityreview.com shows only 553 DVD-A releases. I have no idea how complete either of those lists are. I believe Sony and Philips also both have SACD release lists. Finding a comprehensive list for DVD-A has seemed to be little more difficult. DVDAngle also has a list, though they seem to be a little dated.
 

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Hi,


The upgrade bug finally bit me and I'm getting ready to buy a universal DVD-A and SACD player. I've read a number of good things about the Pioneer DV-47Ai and the Onkyo DV-SP800. However, I wonder if there is an alternate player that's also region code free and may even have a DVI output?

Reason is that I have many region 2 DVD's some of which my Momitsu player doesn't like. For those I have a region2 player. It'd be nice to not add a 3rd player to my already crowded AV rack. Wishful thinking? Any input appreciated.

Don Andres
 

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Trashcan, I know you mentioned you were looking for a changer with either a DVD-A or SACD capability. As of now I am not aware of any "universal" megachanger from any brand, but some might appear in near future. Yet, I do not think it would be a good idea to invest in such a unit. Yes, you can get a megachanger (Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer, etc) for your DVD/DVD+R/DVD+RW/CD collection. But in case you are thinking of getting into hi rez music I would siggest to have a single disc universal player (there are quite a number of decent units out there already in different price ranges). This will do more justice to hi rez music to begin with: single discs units IMHO are much better transports due to much lesser vibration. A universal player will immediately solve your "DVD-A vs SACD" dilemma - why chose between the two and not enjoy records in both formats? As folks here said both sound terrific as long as they were mastered decently.
 

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Here is one vote for SACD. SACD seems to have more titles currently; especially for the so-called audiophools. A recent rumor has Universal-Europe dropping DVD-A and committing to SACD all the way.


My brief experiences with DVD-A or 24/96 PCM from DADs have never matched the musical enjoyment I've gotten from a few of my SACDs. Could be the lack of quality PCM-based recordings and/or superiority of the SACD format.


The jury is still out IMHO but DVD-A has not yet released enough of the titles I'm interested in in order for me to make a significant investment in DVD-A.


I did seriously consider the EAD DVDMaster Pro w/ DVD-A capability, but held out for DVD player with DVI output because the DVD-V remains the biggest reason for upgrading DVD playback.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by oscar1
My brief experiences with DVD-A or 24/96 PCM from DADs have never matched the musical enjoyment I've gotten from a few of my SACDs. Could be the lack of quality PCM-based recordings and/or superiority of the SACD format.
I've found that having a universal player pretty much solves the problem of which to choose - and they have units available at pretty much all price points now.


Why choose only Vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry when you can have Neapolitan? ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by alweho
I've found that having a universal player pretty much solves the problem of which to choose - and they have units available at pretty much all price points now.


Why choose only Vanilla, Chocolate or Strawberry when you can have Neapolitan? ;)
Jack of All trades; Master of None.


Though it is true I would consider a Universal if I had not already bought into pure analog 4x6 channel pre-amp. (re: current pre/pro did not support 6-channel analog bypass and this was the (cheapest) way for me to get multichannel (MC) SACD and still support HT in the same room AND be able to add separate DVD-A later. The DVD-A player may just magically appear when I (finally) buy a Progressive scan player.


I could have waited for the newer and better pre/pros (with multiple 6-channel inputs and/or Universal players but I believe I got a killer preamp even for 2-channel out of this deal. I doubt I'd find any pre/pro at any price I'd be willing to pay to match the sonics of this piece.


OTOH, Universal player would have saved on cables..(a digital hi-rez link would save even more....)
 

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I vote for SACD.


If you go to www.sacdinfo.com, you'll see how big the collection is getting. I think it's about 4 times bigger than the DVD-A collection.


When I think about how VHS won over BETA, I think it was because there was more content on VHS, and not because VHS was better technology. In the case of DVD-A versus SACD, I think SACD has better technology and has a bigger library.


This will surely be a fun topic for the next couple of years.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by peteyspambucket
When I think about how VHS won over BETA...
I'm not so sure you can make that comparison though. SACD and DVD-A use largely the same hardware - the only real difference is in the chips/firmware decoding the data. There are already cheap chips out that decode both, so we're already technically to the point where universal players cost no more to manufacture than dedicated units. Beta and VHS were physically different enough that "universal" units never became an option, so one was bound to win out (and even then, it took quite a while).


As selection of universal players continues to increase, and cost continues to decrease, there's simply going to be no reason to buy a dedicated unit over a dedicated unit (much like the DVD +/- battle). SACD and DVD-A can coexist, but if there is a victor, I expect that will be determined by the labels, not us. That being the case, I would also expect SACD to win out, simply because I feel the content owners may feel that their high-resolution multichannel material is more "protected" with SACD.
 

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I don't think one will win and the other lose. An increasing number of players now do both as if the manufacturers are saying "why choose when you can have both"
 
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