AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I'm sure this is an easy one for most of you! I'm upgrading my old Dolby (or Doubley, for you Spinal Tap fans) ProLogic system and my DVD player and have a question.


Not sure on the reciever yet, but the DVD will be a Panasonic CP72. This has the options of an optical audio out or through the 6 (5.1) channel analog outs. Assuming the receiver accepts both, which should be better and why? I love the idea on just one audio cable from the dvd to the head, is there a downside to this? Does this have an effect on DVD audio discs?


Thanks for any input
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
You'll need to use both. The 6-channel audio outputs are for DVD-Audio only, and the digital output is for digital bitstreams such as Dolby Digital, DTS and CD. You could use the digital output for your DVD-Audio discs, but you won't get the benefit of the increased resolution that the format has to offer. You would simply be listening to the Dolby Digital track included on most DVD-A discs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
I've had the CP72 for a few months now... not bad for the money! Its a little tricky figuring out how to play the DTS and DD tracks on DVD-audio disks, if you can't figure it out let me know (it took me a few days to stumble upon the solution).


filmnut is correct about needing both connections, but that would be true of any dvd-audio player.


Mitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So what you are saying is that unless I plan on playing DVD-Audio discs, the 6 channel analog outputs are useless? Are you sure about that? The manual for the player makes it sound like an either-or situation, with no clear advantage for either.


I currently have no DVD-A discs (and have yet to see one I can't live without) but I want to plan ahead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by srgilbert
So what you are saying is that unless I plan on playing DVD-Audio discs, the 6 channel analog outputs are useless?
That would be correct. Hopefully you'll find some dvd-audio you like because its impressive (just the fact that there is also a DD or DTS soundtrack on them is nice). As you probably already know it can play mp3 and wma files also.


Mitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Moments after I posted my own reply, I found this info http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq...r%20DVD-Audio?

Quote:
It is expected that for the foreseeable future, all DVD-Audio players will include internal DAC’s (Digital to Analog Converters) and processors with output being provided to six RCA analog connections. The commonly used digital connectors (optical and coaxial) are not capable of handling the data rates that can be generated by a DVD-Audio player. Future DVD-Audio players may include a digital FireWire (IEEE 1394) connection with can handle the high data rate.
So I guess opitcal is the way to go then! Until I get some DVD-A's at least...that will save me a little cash on cables at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by srgilbert

So what you are saying is that unless I plan on playing DVD-Audio discs, the 6 channel analog outputs are useless?
This is incorrect. You can use the 5.1 channel(6 channel) connections on the CP72 for DVD-Video. The CP72 has built in Dolby Digital and DTS decoders to send surround sound through these connections if you want. It says so in the manual. As long as your amplifier/receiver has these preamp connections. However, it is true that you can't use the optical out for DVD-Audio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
That is fine for DD but DTS will still only work through the digital connection.


Besides the digital connection is cheaper and less apt to be distorted by interference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Well, quoting the manual under the 5.1 Analog connection, it says "This unit can decode Dolby Digital and DTS and there are no limitations on sampling frequency with this type of connection."


I'm not saying how it sounds quality-wise. But, if you go by the manual, it sounds like it works with either Dolby or DTS. Also, I was just trying to let him know that he could in fact use the 5.1 channel connections for Surround on DVD-Video and not just on DVD-Audio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Guys, please! Maybe I'll just have to get both and decide myself. It seems like I can't lose either way though, until I check out some DVD audio discs at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just realized something else, since the receiver I'm getting (panny SA-HE100) is a DTS 6.1 system, I would HAVE to use the digital connection to take advantage of that, I assume? The manual for the receiver is not very good!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
When using the 5 analog inputs I believe the HE100 would still output the rear channel also (it takes information from both surrounds).


Btw... I think you've made very good choices for a nice budget HT. What speakers are you planning to use? Please let us know how this setup sounds when you're done.


Thanks, Mitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,372 Posts
As for Dolby Digital or DTS, the issue depends on a comparison between the decoding capabilities of the decoder in the player, vs. the decoder in the receiver. I doubt seriously you'll note a difference. Conventional wisdom would suggest that you permit the receiver to do it.


Lots of players offer DTS and DD decoding ability, and the reality is that this is more often than not redundant, since the processor/receiver will usually also do it, and probably better. This feature on the player usually comes in handy only when you have an old receiver or processor that lacks digital inputs.


As for DTS 6.1 . . . I think that's the version with the rear center channel. If so, there's probably just a handful of discs out there that have it encoded on them, and, of course, you need a rear center channel for it. This has not been a format which has gained any popularity.


If you're not going to listen to DVD-Audio--which, to me, is the most exciting thing about the setup--then by all means connect via the digital cable only.


Nick :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by mitchius
Btw... I think you've made very good choices for a nice budget HT. What speakers are you planning to use? Please let us know how this setup sounds when you're done.


Thanks, Mitch
Thanks, but I can't take all the credit. Before I even seriously consider a component, I do a thorough search on the board here. Both Panasonics (DVD and receiver) received stellar reviews and will go really nice with my Panasonic 42" plasma I should be getting in a few weeks! ;)


Speakers will be the last component I will be looking for though. I've got a setup now that should be sufficient speaker-wise (although I'll eventually add that rear center we talked about.)


It's funny, just a month ago, when first I got the plasma bug, I never dreamed that Panasonic would be such a leader in (affordable) HT gear. Now just about everything in the chain will be Panny brand. Again, I have AVS to thank (or to blame, as my wife might see it :rolleyes: )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
One other thing to look out for is that you don't want to use the analog outputs on your player for DVD-Video unless either the player has onboard bass management, or your receiver adds bass management to the analog multichannel inputs. Only a handful of receivers do this. In addition, most receivers treat the multichannel inputs as pass-through only, with no digital processing of any sort (including any surround formats or THX post-processing). That means 5.1 only; no 6.1 or 7.1. Your rear speaker(s) would be useless in that case.


Unless you have one of the new receivers that does all that stuff, don't even THINK about using the analog outputs of your player for DVD-Video.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Quote:
In addition, most receivers treat the multichannel inputs as pass-through only, with no digital processing of any sort (including any surround formats or THX post-processing). That means 5.1 only; no 6.1 or 7.1. Your rear speaker(s) would be useless in that case.
I don't completely understand what you're saying. If he wants to use something other than the optical out, and he has a receiver that treats the 5.1 inputs as pass-through only. Then, he'd be using the DD or DTS decoder from the DVD player and he wouldn't need the receiver to do any surround sound processing. True, the CP72 doesn't have bass management, nor THX. But with THX, you're not going to find that on many reasonably priced receivers anyway. If someone is looking to have 6.1 or 7.1, of course, they wouldn't be using the 5.1 analog outputs of the DVD. They'd have a receiver that could handle that sort of thing and wouldn't bother using the analog outs.


It's also true that with the 5.1 analog inputs, a rear center channel speaker would be useless. But, don't tell me you're saying that all of the rear speakers would be useless?:)


I would agree that using the 5.1 analog outs on the CP72 is for people that don't have a newer receiver that can take digital connections or have run out of digital connections. As, digital is the way to go. But, if he's looking for that option, it's definitely there. Agreed, too, that a receiver is most likely going to do better decoding than a DVD player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Vikes4ever
I don't completely understand what you're saying. If he wants to use something other than the optical out, and he has a receiver that treats the 5.1 inputs as pass-through only. Then, he'd be using the DD or DTS decoder from the DVD player and he wouldn't need the receiver to do any surround sound processing. True, the CP72 doesn't have bass management, nor THX. But with THX, you're not going to find that on many reasonably priced receivers anyway.
Certainly the DVD Player may provide DD and DTS decoding , but the receiver offers surround sound modes such as Logic 7 (HK and Lexicon), DTS-ES Discrete and Matrix, DD EX, THX Surround EX, and any other mode that derives a surround back channel from a 5.1 mix, as well as the ubiquitous silly surround modes such as Arena, Stadium, Smoky Bar, etc. None of these things can be applied to an analog signal passed through to the amps via the volume control.


BTW, there are many receivers under $1k that are THX Select certified. I own one of them, a Pioneer Elite VSX-33TX. Street price was $685 brand new.

Quote:
If someone is looking to have 6.1 or 7.1, of course, they wouldn't be using the 5.1 analog outputs of the DVD. They'd have a receiver that could handle that sort of thing and wouldn't bother using the analog outs.
Precisely my point. If he wants to use any surround mode that provides a surround back channel, he MUST use the digital output, unless he has a receiver that digitally processes the multichannel inputs.

Quote:
It's also true that with the 5.1 analog inputs, a rear center channel speaker would be useless. But, don't tell me you're saying that all of the rear speakers would be useless?
Yes, when I said rear speakers , I was referring to the back surround speakers. In a 6.1 or 7.1 system, you have two side surrounds and one or two rear surrounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,021 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Dang, this is even more complicated than I thought!


From what I've been able to gather, the optical output will handle all standard audio from DVD movies (Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Digital EX, and DTS 6.1) but not DVD-Audio discs. It would seem that until I actually buy a DVD-A disc, there is no need to use the analog outs if the receiver has an optical in, right?


I may have posted this before, but here goes again.

From the Digital Audio Guide site's FAQ

What audio system is required for DVD-Audio?


Ideally, a receiver or preamplifier with 6 RCA analog inputs, that does not convert the analog signal back to digital for internal processing and that supports a dynamic range and frequency response comparable with the ultra-high audio fidelity possible with DVD-Audio.


It is expected that for the foreseeable future, all DVD-Audio players will include internal DAC’s (Digital to Analog Converters) and processors with output being provided to six RCA analog connections. The commonly used digital connectors (optical and coaxial) are not capable of handling the data rates that can be generated by a DVD-Audio player. Future DVD-Audio players may include a digital FireWire (IEEE 1394) connection with can handle the high data rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
A few companies provide now a digital interface for the DVD-A format: Pioneer, Meridian, Denon. There's a 4th but I can't remember it at the moment. But you have to have both their player and their receiver. They're not cheap though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I figured that most receivers today would at least do rudimentary 5.1 surround from a 5.1 analog connection still allowing you to enjoy the show.

What I want to know is, if you have a connection for each of the 5.1 channels coming from the back of the player, and a connection for each of the 5.1 channels going into the receiver(even if it's pass-through) why couldn't you get basic 5.1 surround? Isn't that the point of having separate

5.1 connections for each channel on the player with internal decoding, if it's not for older receivers and ones without digital connections? It can't just be for DVD-A either, as you have these connections on non DVD-A players as well. Although, it does look like the receiver he's chosen(HE-1000), will give him the back channel option as mitchius stated. Even though it wouldn't be the most desired surround mode available.

Quote:
BTW, there are many receivers under $1k that are THX Select certified. I own one of them, a Pioneer Elite VSX-33TX. Street price was $685 brand new.
Not that you or I would have a problem paying $700 for a receiver. But, not a lot of people would consider $700 a "reasonable" price. It may be reasonable for THX, but still a lot more than people want to spend in general.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top