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http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/...nnetonka.shtml
This obviously has some interesting implications....
This obviously has some interesting implications....
DVD Audio on PC... Could this be a solution
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Nah, it is an authoring tool only rather than playback and it doesn't even support MLP at that until you get into the $3500 price range.
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But how can you author something without a preview playback function ??
OK I agree that the 3.5k package is too pricey (but I think the 2.5k package can import MLP) for general playback use but it does actually mean that the format is possible (does it not ??)...
OK I agree that the 3.5k package is too pricey (but I think the 2.5k package can import MLP) for general playback use but it does actually mean that the format is possible (does it not ??)...
Nice find. It's definitely possible. It's just bits... well, encrypted bits. It seems like it should be fairly easy for the existing HTPC DVD players to implement these.
The DVD-Audio consortium might do well to use PCs to quickly take production market share away from SACD... so too with playback. As has been argued before, all one needs is a "real" MLP player and a 24/96 card (let alone 24/192 cards) with six inputs and a thief is done. The cat was out of the bag the day they released their very first player. Mine as well capitalize on those who will pay a fair amount for access.
I had a JVC XV-SA75GD here over the weekend. I had to take it back because it had both a problem with "forced subtitles" and a dts playback bug, but the DVD-Audio through my Rotel/Polk setup was fabulous. Hotel California was just yummy! Had I chose to, all I needed was an M-audio or Terratec and I could have been "in business". See. Not everyone is a thief. Not even when they could be.
The DVD-Audio consortium might do well to use PCs to quickly take production market share away from SACD... so too with playback. As has been argued before, all one needs is a "real" MLP player and a 24/96 card (let alone 24/192 cards) with six inputs and a thief is done. The cat was out of the bag the day they released their very first player. Mine as well capitalize on those who will pay a fair amount for access.
I had a JVC XV-SA75GD here over the weekend. I had to take it back because it had both a problem with "forced subtitles" and a dts playback bug, but the DVD-Audio through my Rotel/Polk setup was fabulous. Hotel California was just yummy! Had I chose to, all I needed was an M-audio or Terratec and I could have been "in business". See. Not everyone is a thief. Not even when they could be.
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I would also say that the DVD-A demographic is substantially different from the general CD audio population... People who have invested time / money / effort / research into getting value from thier audio setups are also the kind of people (IMHO) who are most likely to see value in packaging / liner notes / additionals to the disk...
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It doesn't say anything about playback. I have experience with their SurCode DTS encoder and it is also one way only. If you need to preview the sound with SurCode, you need to use some other software to play back all 6 discrete wav files. I expect the same is true with this product.
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It does not playback... I am in touch with them (and got them to have a look here) and am explaining just how many people are desperate to get higher quality audio formats to the PC... Perhaps they make take the baton...
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Who needs a new codec like MLP, with restrictive licensing, when DTS 24/96 can probably produce the same audio quality in a double blind test?
This tech paper seems to indicate that DTS 24/96 can reconstruct 24/96 LPCM source with a high degree of fidelity:
http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/members/news/news31.asp
Yes, we need the PowerDVD's, WinDVD's and Cinemaster's of the world to update their players to decode and output DTS 24/96 (they may already be able to output DTS 24/96, since a 24/96 DTS bitstream ought to look the same to the DVD player as a 20/48 DTS bitstream), but at least the PC platform has an option for increased fidelity 24/96 5.1 material.
This tech paper seems to indicate that DTS 24/96 can reconstruct 24/96 LPCM source with a high degree of fidelity:
http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/members/news/news31.asp
Yes, we need the PowerDVD's, WinDVD's and Cinemaster's of the world to update their players to decode and output DTS 24/96 (they may already be able to output DTS 24/96, since a 24/96 DTS bitstream ought to look the same to the DVD player as a 20/48 DTS bitstream), but at least the PC platform has an option for increased fidelity 24/96 5.1 material.
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Personally I am source agnostic... I really dont care which higher resolution format wins but I want the state of the art to progress... This wont happen until the user base and source material changes dramatically from what we have now...
The way I see it SACD is probably the 'best' of the systems in purely audio terms (and I have not had much demo chances here I am going on info / specs / reading between the lines) but that the Sony licencing system may be too restrictive to get it to the public...
24/96 is still progress and I am of the belief that good 24/96 source in a setup were the user has applied full thought to thier signal chain and spent countless hours playing with small variables like speaker position and direction, sub placement, room treatments etc... Will sound wonderful... In fact I would also say a good redbook CD played on the same setup will still sound far superior to 99% of the mid-fi equipment in 99% of homes... I am discovering that a little experimentation and some research is the best investment in audio...
I have a gut feeling that DVD-A will be the winner in the format wars as consumers find that multi channel music played on thier DVD player (just drop the V or the A) sounds better than CD... Also the fact that there appear to be DVD-A authoring tools and the (slim ??) possibility of a PC based player are all strong positives to this format...
Then again what the hell do I know ?? I have only just stepped up to speakers that are worthy of the title so IMO is certainly worth bearing in mind...
The way I see it SACD is probably the 'best' of the systems in purely audio terms (and I have not had much demo chances here I am going on info / specs / reading between the lines) but that the Sony licencing system may be too restrictive to get it to the public...
24/96 is still progress and I am of the belief that good 24/96 source in a setup were the user has applied full thought to thier signal chain and spent countless hours playing with small variables like speaker position and direction, sub placement, room treatments etc... Will sound wonderful... In fact I would also say a good redbook CD played on the same setup will still sound far superior to 99% of the mid-fi equipment in 99% of homes... I am discovering that a little experimentation and some research is the best investment in audio...
I have a gut feeling that DVD-A will be the winner in the format wars as consumers find that multi channel music played on thier DVD player (just drop the V or the A) sounds better than CD... Also the fact that there appear to be DVD-A authoring tools and the (slim ??) possibility of a PC based player are all strong positives to this format...
Then again what the hell do I know ?? I have only just stepped up to speakers that are worthy of the title so IMO is certainly worth bearing in mind...
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I think you have it backwards, Dolby is almost giving away MLP. Actually, when you licensee Dolby, you get MLP too. There are no resctictions. DTS 96/24 on the other hand is A - still born, B - sonically inferior (I have listened to it and compared with MLP on the same disc.) and C. hell'a-expensive! to license.
When I spoke with Dolby at CES, they said a couple of Windows DVD-A players were in development.
| Who needs a new codec like MLP, with restrictive licensing, when DTS 24/96 can probably produce the same audio quality in a double blind test? |
When I spoke with Dolby at CES, they said a couple of Windows DVD-A players were in development.
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sspears-
Wow! Glad I "shook the tree" enough to elicit an announcement of a ground breaking development for the PC
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Past discussion last year re: DVD-A centered around the licensing of MLP. Guess this won't be a problem in the future.
Still, DTS 24/96 will probably find a home for movie and concert DVD-V discs. DTS will probably eventuall throw 24/96 in "for free" with a stock DTS license, just to keep up with the Joneses, er, the Dolbys.
Wow! Glad I "shook the tree" enough to elicit an announcement of a ground breaking development for the PC
.Past discussion last year re: DVD-A centered around the licensing of MLP. Guess this won't be a problem in the future.
Still, DTS 24/96 will probably find a home for movie and concert DVD-V discs. DTS will probably eventuall throw 24/96 in "for free" with a stock DTS license, just to keep up with the Joneses, er, the Dolbys.
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MLP has never been restrictive on its license, perhaps you are thinking of watermarking. Anyone who wants to license it is free to do so, they are very, very open about it.
There is an additional fee for DTS ES Descrete/Neo:6 vs. standard DTS if you are a previous licensee of DTS. (chances are they want to make you sign a new contract and raise your previous fee.) I am not 100% sure about the inclusion of 96/24. It is because of this not everyone has or ever will support the new flavors of DTS. DTS 96/24 is a CPU hog too. At this point Tag is not supporting it and will only do so if some content is released. There is another post at the Tag site from Udo saying no DTS 96/24 for now.
You probably will not see DTS 96/24 used on DVD-V for movies. It leaves very little for video, unless you don't mind low quality video.
No need to update any DVD-ROM firware, they can all handle MLP. The only thing you need is an app that can decode it. The current problem is CPU. Yep, a new version of powerDVD or windDVD is all you will need. (Providing they are the ones to write it.)
There is an additional fee for DTS ES Descrete/Neo:6 vs. standard DTS if you are a previous licensee of DTS. (chances are they want to make you sign a new contract and raise your previous fee.) I am not 100% sure about the inclusion of 96/24. It is because of this not everyone has or ever will support the new flavors of DTS. DTS 96/24 is a CPU hog too. At this point Tag is not supporting it and will only do so if some content is released. There is another post at the Tag site from Udo saying no DTS 96/24 for now.
You probably will not see DTS 96/24 used on DVD-V for movies. It leaves very little for video, unless you don't mind low quality video.
No need to update any DVD-ROM firware, they can all handle MLP. The only thing you need is an app that can decode it. The current problem is CPU. Yep, a new version of powerDVD or windDVD is all you will need. (Providing they are the ones to write it.)
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sspears,
When you say the current problem is CPU, do you mean that current CPUs won't be fast enough to handle the decoding?
When you say the current problem is CPU, do you mean that current CPUs won't be fast enough to handle the decoding?
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Current should be just fine.
With multichannel analog out, you need to perform bass management, time alignment, and MLP decode. You need to do all of this at 96 kHz. of course I would not be suprised if time alignment and bass management are not implemented in first gen products just like most STBs.
With multichannel analog out, you need to perform bass management, time alignment, and MLP decode. You need to do all of this at 96 kHz. of course I would not be suprised if time alignment and bass management are not implemented in first gen products just like most STBs.
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Quote:
We already have advanced bass management and time alignment at 24/96 in the Delta 410/1010/1010LT cards. All we need now is MLP decoding.
| Originally posted by sspears Current should be just fine. With multichannel analog out, you need to perform bass management, time alignment, and MLP decode. You need to do all of this at 96 kHz. of course I would not be suprised if time alignment and bass management are not implemented in first gen products just like most STBs. |
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