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"DVD is HD, right?"

3039 Views 53 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Paul Clancy, Jan 4, 2006

Frohlich

Discussion Starter · Dec 21, 2005

I only post this to reflect what your average consumer understands DVD to be. I personally think HD DVD (either format) is going to struggle for some of the reasons I see posted on various threads. There are not that many HD TVs out there, so the target market is not very big to begin with. You throw in the fact that 80% of people probably think DVD is already high definition. My father in law came over last night to see my Sony 60 SXRD and he was watching hi def channels and then I put a DVD on. He made the comment that DVDs are high def. He is probably the 5th person I have heard make that comment. Point being that consumers are already confused on hi def and they probably won't see the need for a high def DVD format since they think DVD is already hi def. Plus 95% of people won't be willing to spend over $500 for player, and you throw in the lack of studio support for one format and I think we might be in for a long,slow rollout of new formats.

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hmurchison

· #2 · Dec 21, 2005

Nope you simply tell people that all DVD have 480 resolution and the "minimum" for HD is 720p with 1080i/p being the coupe de grace.

Then you show then the difference ...sell them the TV and go tell them to change their pants.

Frohlich

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 21, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmurchison
Nope you simply tell people that all DVD have 480 resolution and the "minimum" for HD is 720p with 1080i/p being the coupe de grace.

Then you show then the difference ...sell them the TV and go tell them to change their pants.

Thatâ€™s part of the problem. This stuff gets complicated quickly. When I start talking 480I/480P, 720P, 1080I most people's eyes gloss over and get lost. The members of this forum get it because we are into HT as a hobby. The other 98% of pleople don't want to learn. This is not there hobby or passion. They just want to have a nice picture and have no idea what HDMI is, HD DVD versus blue ray, progressive versus interlaced,etcâ€¦. It gets too confusing too quickly for your average consumer.

hmurchison

· #4 · Dec 21, 2005

I agree

My mother didn't grok HD until Comcast installed it and she watched her first sports game. Now she's hooked and bummed that her Tivo doesn't support HD...yet.

Every store needs to be promoting a HD by showing the same monitor displaying HD on one and SD on the other in perfect juxtoposition. When people see the colors popping off the screen and the resolution they'll be sold. They'll grumble about paying more money but they'll want it bad.

AnthonyP

· #5 · Dec 21, 2005

agree, people are confused, and honestly many merchants don't help. We buy a common Christmas present for my dad each year, this year his been hinting he needs a new TV for the kitchen. My BIL sent this link http://www.costco.ca/en-CA/Browse/Pr...&hierPath=2341 to everyone asking what they thought and if it was a good price for an HDTV. There is nothing HD about it, except for all the Costco added HDTV logos all over the place.

AnthonyP

· #6 · Dec 21, 2005

PS I also agree with hmurchison example. That is why I am not worried (much) about the next generation disks. I think once people see HD material on an HDTV set both will start flying off the shelves.

nataraj

· #7 · Dec 21, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyP
My BIL sent this link http://www.costco.ca/en-CA/Browse/Pr...&hierPath=2341 to everyone asking what they thought and if it was a good price for an HDTV. There is nothing HD about it, except for all the Costco added HDTV logos all over the place.

Hmmmm ... does that display HD if fed a 1080i/720p signal ?

P.S. I do count my XGA DLP projector as a HD display.

AnthonyP

· #8 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Hmmmm ... does that display HD if fed a 1080i/720p signal ?

no idea, but even if it does it is not HD

SD= standard definition = 520 lines of resolution 4:3

HD= high definition =720 lines of resolution or more 16:9

ED=Enhanced definition=720 lines of resolution or more 4:3

HDTV ready= any display that is not HD but can input and down rez an HD signal

It might be HD ready but it is definitely EDTV. Also even at that it comes with a tuner that is not HD.

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AnthonyP

· #9 · Dec 22, 2005

PS, decided to check Daytek directly, http://www.daytek.ca/wtn-15e2.html funny how they don't think it is HDTV but only HDTV ready, so I would guess the answer is most likely yes, it can input HD (720 or maybe even 1080)

JBlacklow

· #10 · Dec 22, 2005

For us, it's simple, we've got systems that bring out the best, and we can show the differences to others quite easily. But when they get to a store with uncalibrated displays, unflattering lighting, and distractions up the wazoo, it can be harder to tell. Thankfully, more and more stores are providing HD feeds, which makes it easier, especially on the larger displays. Will it make a difference? Probably not at first, but that's what early adopters--who tend to be well-researched and tech-savvy--are for.

beaudot

· #11 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyP
no idea, but even if it does it is not HD

SD= standard definition = 520 lines of resolution 4:3

HD= high definition =720 lines of resolution or more 16:9

ED=Enhanced definition=720 lines of resolution or more 4:3

HDTV ready= any display that is not HD but can input and down rez an HD signal

It might be HD ready but it is definitely EDTV. Also even at that it comes with a tuner that is not HD.

It is pretty funny that you are talking so condescendingly about others, when you are clearly confused.

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nataraj

· #12 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBlacklow
For us, it's simple, we've got systems that bring out the best, and we can show the differences to others quite easily. But when they get to a store with uncalibrated displays, unflattering lighting, and distractions up the wazoo, it can be harder to tell. Thankfully, more and more stores are providing HD feeds, which makes it easier, especially on the larger displays. Will it make a difference? Probably not at first, but that's what early adopters--who tend to be well-researched and tech-savvy--are for.

There is definitely another set of people (most people I know) who have not got a HDTV / have HD but don't use it for HD programming because they know that there is little HD programming that is available.

I think a lot of us tend to ignore this fact.

Ofcourse its a chicken and egg situation.

beaudot

· #13 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBlacklow
For us, it's simple, we've got systems that bring out the best, and we can show the differences to others quite easily. But when they get to a store with uncalibrated displays, unflattering lighting, and distractions up the wazoo, it can be harder to tell. Thankfully, more and more stores are providing HD feeds, which makes it easier, especially on the larger displays. Will it make a difference? Probably not at first, but that's what early adopters--who tend to be well-researched and tech-savvy--are for.

I have a 34" HD CRT, a 50" HD Plasma, and a HD projectory with a 92" screen. On the 34, I can't tell the difference between a DVD and the same movie in HD. I can tell a difference on the plasma, but DVDs through an upscaling dvd player look pretty good. On the projector, watching dvds on a progressive scan player made me yearn for HD DVD, but once I upgraded to an upscaling player, the difference wasn't so great. I can pretty much only tell a difference on long distance shots. DVDs have pretty good PQ. The difference between DVD and HD for a movie is nowhere even close to the difference between say an HD football game and its SD counterpart. The quality of the current DVDs makes HD DVD a bit of a hard sell.

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nataraj

· #14 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyP
no idea, but even if it does it is not HD

SD= standard definition = 520 lines of resolution 4:3

HD= high definition =720 lines of resolution or more 16:9

ED=Enhanced definition=720 lines of resolution or more 4:3

HDTV ready= any display that is not HD but can input and down rez an HD signal

It might be HD ready but it is definitely EDTV. Also even at that it comes with a tuner that is not HD.

ED is normally said to be 480p. I don't know if there are any FCC definitions. But, XGA 4:3 display meets the official CEA criteria for being a HDTV.

Here is the official Consumer Electronics Association definition (in pdf) ...

Quote:

HIGH-DEFINITION

TELEVISION (HDTV)

MONITOR:

HDTV Monitor refers to a monitor or display with the following minimum performance attributes:

Display Scanning Formatâ€”Has active vertical scanning

lines of 720 progressive (720p), 1080 interlaced (1080i),

or higher

Aspect Ratioâ€”Capable of displaying a 16:9 image

note : In specifications found on product literature and in ownerâ€™s

manuals, manufacturers are required to disclose the number of

vertical scanning lines in the 16:9 viewable area, which must be

540p, 810i or higher to meet the definition of HDTV.

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avaholic

· #15 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaudot
I have a 34" HD CRT, a 50" HD Plasma, and a HD projectory with a 92" screen. On the 34, I can't tell the difference between a DVD and the same movie in HD. I can tell a difference on the plasma, but DVDs through an upscaling dvd player look pretty good. On the projector, watching dvds on a progressive scan player made me yearn for HD DVD, but once I upgraded to an upscaling player, the difference wasn't so great. I can pretty much only tell a difference on long distance shots. DVDs have pretty good PQ. The difference between DVD and HD for a movie is nowhere even close to the difference between say an HD football game and its SD counterpart. The quality of the current DVDs makes HD DVD a bit of a hard sell.

Agreed, I feel the same way. Just another reason why IMHO, HD DVD's will have a very tough time breaking into the market in any substantial quanity. IF, it does great! I'm all for it. I'll believe it when I see it though. HOPE is good, but it and the truth can be two different things.

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nataraj

· #16 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaudot
On the projector, watching dvds on a progressive scan player made me yearn for HD DVD, but once I upgraded to an upscaling player, the difference wasn't so great.

...

The quality of the current DVDs makes HD DVD a bit of a hard sell.

I'm hoping the diff between OTA HD and HiDef DVDs would be similar to the difference between Cable SD and DVD.

AnthonyP

· #17 · Dec 22, 2005

I guess you might technically be right, it might be HDTV as defined by the CEA. ON the other hand you are not really displaying HD (720p minimum)

as to the use of the logo it also states they need to "disclose the number of vertical scanning lines in the 16:9 viewable area" that is not there and "Audioâ€”Receives and reproduces, and/or outputs Dolby Digital audio" not in the spec sheet so not sure if it can or not.

nataraj

· #18 · Dec 22, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I guess you might technically be right, it might be HDTV as defined by the CEA. ON the other hand you are not really displaying HD (720p minimum)

as to the use of the logo it also states they need to "disclose the number of vertical scanning lines in the 16:9 viewable area" that is not there and "Audioâ€”Receives and reproduces, and/or outputs Dolby Digital audio" not in the spec sheet so not sure if it can or not.

Also, they are using HDTV instead of saying its a HDTV Monitor (which is what is technically).

AnthonyP

· #19 · Dec 22, 2005

if anyone cares (most likely not) they did not have it but had http://www.daytek.ca/dcm-15st.html this one instead, so just got it. Anyone know Costcos return policy on TVs, saw

http://www.mintekdigital.com/detail.asp?ProdID=DTV-173 in an add for a good price and was thinking of checking it out

PS nataraj: it has a tuner so it falls under TV not monitor

stanger89

· #20 · Dec 23, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaudot
I have a 34" HD CRT, a 50" HD Plasma, and a HD projectory with a 92" screen. On the 34, I can't tell the difference between a DVD and the same movie in HD. I can tell a difference on the plasma, but DVDs through an upscaling dvd player look pretty good. On the projector, watching dvds on a progressive scan player made me yearn for HD DVD, but once I upgraded to an upscaling player, the difference wasn't so great. I can pretty much only tell a difference on long distance shots. DVDs have pretty good PQ. The difference between DVD and HD for a movie is nowhere even close to the difference between say an HD football game and its SD counterpart. The quality of the current DVDs makes HD DVD a bit of a hard sell.

I agree completely. I started with a 36" HD CRT (tube) then a 46" RP CRT, and finally a 720p HD2 DLP FP (96" wide CIH setup). I think I have yet to be truely "blown away" by a film-sourced HD picture. HD video is very nice, but since I rarely (if ever) watch sports or documentaries, most stuff falls into the film-sourced category.

NG-DVD is going to have to be something truely special to "fly off" the shelves. Probably at least as good as the "mythical"

D-VHS (which I haven't had the pleasure of seeing).

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