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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this has been covered in the past, but I'm looking for some opinions about why one is better then the other. I'm looking for a DVD recorder for my Home Theater not for my computer. I like the Philips DVDR985. I'm just not sure about the "minus". Any thoughts?


-Dan
 

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DVD-R Pros...


... greater compatibility with older DVD players, and possibly an edge with new player as well.



DVD+R Cons...


... Philips has a track record of abandoning technology and while DVD-R will certainly continue, the future of DVD+R is not assured.


... I have heard reports of people having problems with the Philips 985 recorder, while the Pioneer 7000/9000 have been rock solid. And although the image quality on the 985 may be slightly superior because of it's Sage/Faroudja output processing, the units are similar in their ability to record a DVD signal from a source.


We were in the same boat about 6 months ago and just last month. We started out with the Panasonic E20 and ended up selling that unit. Then when we were searching for a replacement recorder, it came down to the Philips 985 and the Pioneer 7000. We decided on the Pioneer, even though it was more costly.


Happy shopping.


RJ

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks RJ. I have a friend that works at a store that can get me the Pioneer for $800. Is that a good price?
 

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PC Magazine, November 19, 2002 issue reported on a study by Intellikey Laboratories that examined compatibility using 100 players manufactured since 1999. They found that DVD+Rs were compatible with 90% of the players, DVD-Rs with 77%, DVD+RWs with 72% and DVD-RWs with 66%. They mentioned various other factors affecting compatibility including burners and software. The article also refers to a Pioneer study that found somewhat different results. You can find it at: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,640404,00.asp
 

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All of my equipment is DVD-R based, but I'm starting to wonder about its long-term viability. It appears that the *retail* marketing support is a lot higher by the DVD+ camp than the DVD- camp.


Look at the ads in the paper, there are very few ads for DVD-R products, boatloads of ads for the DVD+R stuff. Look at the shelf space allocated to DVD+ stuff at CompUsa and BestBuy, it is about 75% DVD+ to 25% for DVD-.


Without debating the technical merits of one or the other, I certainly think the proponents of DVD+ are making a bigger splash from a marketing standpoint. This certainly can impact the longer-term viability of the DVD- technology.


Of course I can always switch over to the DVD+ camp when I can buy a DVD+ burner for $99 in a year or two if DVD- fades into the sunset. :)


jb
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by danr1707
Thanks RJ. I have a friend that works at a store that can get me the Pioneer for $800. Is that a good price?
Yes. The best internet price I have seen from a box mover is $850 + shipping.


I paid $1000 shipped, which included next day Fed Ex because I have a project deadline that paid for the unit. ;-)


Let me know if you have any questions about the 7000.


RJ

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Wow, I am shocked at how one sided this thread is.


The reason there is movement towards the DVD+R camp away from dvd-r is that dvd+R is superior for video recording (visible better quality across the board when compared to dvd-r), it automatically has bookmarking functions built into the recording process and has several video editing features dvd-r does not.


And keep in mind, the other big use for DVD's in the world besides pc's is video, so if the only other major use for dvd's are video oriented, half of what else you want to do is better with dvd+R


Also dvd+RW discs are pretty much instantly usable and dont need the long format wait time dvd-rw does.


That being said, I got a defective 985 recorder Philips took back so the current hardware sets out there have had past firmware issues.


I think most of the major hardware problems have been ironed out, though not all.


I am going out to buy another 985 (now at price 300$ less I might add since I opted for a full refund from Philips) as it has component input and most dvd video recorders don't, and because the recording is superior to dvd-r quality wise in comparison articles.


I seriously looked at dvd-r, but I just don't like all the issue it would give me with discs and also recording and editing video discs.


I do like the reliability prior to now of dvd-r recorders, but even philips has ironed out most of the kinks, and the 985 can be had for 580$ now on the internet and thats a steal for how high the quality unit and mpeg 2 and deinterlacer in the player is.


Here is just one of the many reviews comparing the Panasonic DMR-HS2,

Philips DVDR985, Pioneer DVR-7000 that picks the 985 as the winner. The firmware updates fix the timer recording issue so its pretty much the slam dunk winner across the board.


Pricegrabber.com shows the 985 for 580$ approx at MANY online vendors, so that 800$ street price in the review is way off too :)

http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/prod...405534,00.html
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Courtney
PC Magazine, November 19, 2002 issue reported on a study by Intellikey Laboratories that examined compatibility using 100 players manufactured since 1999. They found that DVD+Rs were compatible with 90% of the players, DVD-Rs with 77%, DVD+RWs with 72% and DVD-RWs with 66%. They mentioned various other factors affecting compatibility including burners and software. The article also refers to a Pioneer study that found somewhat different results. You can find it at: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,640404,00.asp
The results depend critically on the particular universe of players used for the test. Change the players, and the numbers will change.
 

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Quote:
The reason there is movement towards the DVD+R camp away from dvd-r is that dvd+R is superior for video recording (visible better quality across the board when compared to dvd-r)
Can't see any way that could be true. In terms of recording video, both are essentially just bit buckets. The recorder certainly could make a difference, but not the disc format.
 

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MDRiggs: Can't see any way that could be true. In terms of recording video, both are essentially just bit buckets. The recorder certainly could make a difference, but not the disc format.QUOTE]


I think you answered your own question, like everything else in technology its how you do it.


And in the +RW reviews I have readthere are things inherently different from -RW like I specifically mentioned, and several video editing features.


Again the Philips 985 recorder also component inputs, thats a tremendous plus.


I agree with you about the number of units tested, but that can said about any test on -RW also.


Also several video engineers I have talked to said the quality of the +R video recorders, the 985 in particular, even with all its past glitches, and there were some for sure, records the best picture hands down.


I have owned both, had less problems with the Panasonic's in some ways than the Philips before most of the firmware fixes and I also prefer the 985, which is just my opinion of course. I am by no means happy the Philips unit I got had firmware issues but then it was much newer technology back then. If I had someplace else to go for a +RW set top unit to get the video quality for the same price I might but its the only option right now and now a cheap one.


I went replace it yesterday Best Buy in my area has been out of 985's for 2 weeks or more. I asked the salesman and he said people prefer the video quality and editing and automatic bookmark features over the -R video recorders.
 

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Quote:
Also several video engineers I have talked to said the quality of the +R video recorders, the 985 in particular, even with all its past glitches, and there were some for sure, records the best picture hands down.
These engineers are morons because Philips has the worst video quality. I own Philips, Pioneer and Panasonic. Pioneer has clearly the best picture (probably due to use of LSI MPEG encoder only found in expensive professional encoders) , followed closely by Panasonic and Philips is far behind.

Also I do not know what editing you got with + format. On DVD+R you can't edit anything besides chapters but once finalized this chapters do not work on other DVD Players. This is the same as DVD-R. On DVD+RW the only thing you can edit is chapter marks and hide chapters. There is nothing else. At least on DVD-RW or DVD-RAM in VR mode you can all kinds of editing which you can only dream about with DVD+RW. Of course this mode is incompatible with many older players, but many new players from Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer support VR mode. Of course you can record DVD-RW in video mode which makes it very compatible with most players.
 

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If I plug DVD-R/DVD-RAM formats here, can I get everybody to rally around the product line that I have?


When people talk about DVD+R being compatible with 90% of players are we talking about models or unit numbers?


What I'd be interested in knowing is how many units of each format recorder have been released? Whichever one is selling the most units that's the one I want to be behind.


Of course, i've already bought a DVD-R/RAM recorder unit, so naturally I'd like to see that product line progress fastest.


Steve
 

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CKNA:


I have not owned the Pioneer -R video recorder, mainly because its by far the most expensive, often almost TWICE the cost of the Philips depending on where you look. I believe thats a much more recently released model too, so that would make sense that it might do the job better if it does. I did check, Best Buy and Hi Fi Buys locally did not carry the Pioneer so I could not go check it out.


However, I haven't gotten a dvd video recorder replacement yet so if enough materializes in this thread to sway me I have no bias towards +R other than just my past experiences and all these reviews I have read.
 

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ZZtop,


Pioneer DVR-7000 was couple months before any Philips DVDR985 hit the market. Yes, Pioneer price is high but you get a lot quality. You can find Pioneer on Internet from $850 to $1000.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by calebu2
When people talk about DVD+R being compatible with 90% of players are we talking about models or unit numbers?
The problem is that any number you see will be, at best, an approximation, because nobody has enough information to do any better. The best anyone can do is to round up a huge number of players, do a test, and extrapolate, which means the extrapolated number will depend to some extent on the particular players used for testing. Plus, there is some history of exaggeration regarding compatibility, or at least overoptimism, as witness the early claims of essentially complete backward compatibility made for DVD+RW.
 
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